Domain appraisals on .com.au's

[Scott.L]

true - 2001 was the year this merger occured but it doesnt change the point made
BHP in 2001 = $25 unit price BHP+Billiton
BHP in 2017 = $25 unit price BHP+Billiton

Heres another;

Telstra share price
TLS in 1999 $9
TLS in 2000 $6
TLS in 2001 $5
TLS in 2002 $4
TLS in 2017 $4

Why do investors see value in this dog of a stock? why are people buying telstra shares? look at its price performance? you would be insane to think that this company will ever achieve $9 + yet people buy and sell into this company every hour whilst the trend is down, down, down... its like Telstra should have the Coles price guarentee as its brand.
Well thats the mentality of those who are convinced that they do not need to do anything but hit the buy button and wait, 20 years later still waiting, when is this going come good? Yet, those who are buying and selling are moving with the money, simply taking a profit when they can and buying back in, churning, tilling, gardening... you work for it;

whats the point of this anaolgy?
Some domain investments are simply made in markets that will never achieve a significant return on investment because some markets are purely energetic based on hype and fantasy. As domains drop, we are given to think that a keyword like flowers, toys, cars, insurance are "good" but good for who? So the real question your trying to ask is - what is a good domain investment for a domainer? when you finally get that answer, your not buying dog stocks.

Registration volumes is like the ASX ALL ORDS and domain values is like the S&P 200 - hint, look at the top 200 and stop looking at the dogs that dropped as a guide to future values?

 

[findtim]

look at the top 200

sorry dude but you just shot yourself in the foot, the top 200 domains are taken and will NEVER return, and they are not held by domainers they are held by users.

relevant story/analogy:
easter was last week, we ALL got eggs, the kids more then me of course, but i played a game with them......... " egg trading" we all sat around and tried to ditch the eggs we didn't want for the eggs we did, i don't like strawberrie flavour buy ruby does, she REALLY like "cadbury marvelous" so i like those creamy eggs so i traded 3 of her creamy for ONE marvelous, max wanted my peppermint eggs so i traded his dark choc eggs 1-1 .
do you get it ???????????
its got NOTHING to do with the domain name ( of course it does but it doesn't) , its got to do with the DESIRE. and thats where domainers and DOMAINERS stand apart.

snoopy's stats are stats, he knows better then most that domain name sales have nothing to do with other domain sales, its just THAT domain at THAT time with THAT person.

so you are just fighting a useless argument, agree to disagree thats it.

tim

 

[snoopy]

As domains drop, we are given to think that a keyword like flowers, toys, cars, insurance are "good" but good for who?

If you are saying those are not very good what has sold for more? Answer: nothing. The $153k sale of flowers.com.au in 2002 is still the highest known sale. Most of the big sales were 5+ years ago.

 

[Scott.L]

sorry dude but you just shot yourself in the foot, the top 200 domains are taken and will NEVER return, and they are not held by domainers they are held by users. tim

No Tim that is not the point - the top 200 domains are used as a guide for valuation within their market segments and the ASX is a good guide for market segment valuations concerning domain names. The ASX 200 can give you a clear direction about the future of domain speculation with clear reasonable "values" about the market, investment, and sentiment; the top 200 domains reflect the markets comparitively; I do not want to mention domains or give appraisals instead i use a straight forth method to find what I consider valued.

• utilisation [ who is the beneficiary]
• ownership [who owns it]
• advertisers [how targeted is the adverting]
• social value [how engaged]
• competition [how many compete within the segment]
• sentiment [what do people think or know about the market]

You can’t expect to do well if your simply taking chances in obtaining success, You don’t just wake up one day and close your eyes and point at a screen and say, okay that’s the stock or domain im going to buy and expect to make a return on it -

I see Ned on Domainer today with an article promoting 3L domains as hot domains, why is it trending? look at who buys these domains and what markets they are assigned. Those domains contain multiple Generic assignment across all markets and judging from the end user they have money to invest - those are domains for domainers. I'm amazed at Ned for being so open and transparent about it; well done Ned. He is showing you one of many ways domainers can earn a living on domains;

If you are saying those are not very good what has sold for more? Answer: nothing. The $153k sale of flowers.com.au in 2002 is still the highest known sale. Most of the big sales were 5+ years ago.

I’m not suggesting those domains are bad, I’m trying to convey that some domain names are not as attractive as they appear, [not specifying domains] some "good" domain names may represent entire markets in decline or markets that are fast becoming automated, great consumer demand [good for developers] low internal competition [bad for domainers]. yet it is easy to get caught up in the excitment of those bidding whilst Offshore markets can give us a false sense of local value.

downlights - is a brilliant domain for the consumer market, belongs to a ever growing and responsive market, so its a domain for developers, the big names like Beacon, Osram, GE, they have their brands and SEO budgets. Small to mid-tier business are brand name determined, mostly encouraged by their own sense of marketing an image rather than targeting engagement - so it’s not a domain name for domainers but one suitable for developers, its a good name for emerging mid-tier comeptitors who can understand the purpose of a GDN and obtain an edge -





.

 

[DomainNames]

From personal experience I have seen very healthy sales and an excellent ROI for .com.au names over recent years. $20 - $120 investment into $x,xxx and $xx,xxx sales. I have never sold a name under $x,xxx. I buy names I think will get at least this or personally I do not waste the time. To another investor however they may see a return of $20 into $100 as also a great Return On Investment, It is a great ROI. This is a very easy sales and ROI model and to make if people want to do it... just like domain name supply registrars/ resellers .. MelbourneIt for example may buy a wholesale .com.au for $12 ( 2 years) and they sell it for $153.98 AUD. ( Crazy pricing compared to other supplier options for the same thing!)

What seems to be apparent is the increasing daily drop list is now made up of more questionable .com.au and .net.au names which are not being renewed.

I also note the positive side for the second level investor. They may have bought the .com.au from someone and then turned that name into a very profitable business or enhanced existing business worth more.

In the right hands and for the right user a good .com.au name can be worth even more as they are sold and further developed. This will always be the case.

A good .com.au is still important for the Australian market. In the eyes of the public people know .com.au and often trust it.. Very few people know or even trust many of the new GLTD's

When I buy online I often go to the com, .co.uk, .co.nz .com.au and I am hesitant of other domain name extensions. In most cases the market leaders in an industry using the common accepted trusted extensions. We do not see major players using .info, .sydney or any of the now available 3000 domain name extensions being flogged off ( some in very low numbers) etc

Very few companies have success using domain name extensions outside of the well trusted and known major market one's. Other domain name extensions are in most cases a complete waste of money and can even hurt a companies reputation if they use them as their main one.

If you are selling globally and can get the .com this is always worth doing but of course they are the most expensive as they do have global recognition in all countries.

We have also seen companies who invested in their own company name as a domain name stick to using the .com etc. Deloitte etc They have .Deloitte but they use Deloitte.com and Deloitte.com.au etc, They do not have all country extensions registered now or any of the other newer GTLDS.
https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=bZ_9WMuDPKfM8gfp46OwBw&gws_rd=ssl#q=.deloitte+domain+name
http://domainnamewire.com/2012/04/18/dissecting-deloittes-deloitte-press-release/
https://econsultancy.com/blog/9660-...deloitte-top-level-domain-but-is-it-worth-it/

auDA has engaged DELOITTE to again advise on the Australian Domain name space and the proposed competing additional .au extension. Does Deloitte Australia have the relevant experience to be engaged in this crucal role? I personally do not think they do after my meeting with them to discuss the issues and facts around domain names. Just because a consulting company has an excellent reputation for consulting in various fields does not mean they really know or understand the Australian Domain Name market.

 

[snoopy]

so it’s not a domain name for domainers but one suitable for developers, its a good name for emerging mid-tier comeptitors who can understand the purpose of a GDN and obtain an edge
.

Zero inquiries in 5 years.....zero.

A good chunk of the .com.au's I've held have been similar. It is long odds compared to spending the money on .com.

 

[snoopy]

auDA has engaged DELOITTE to again advise on the Australian Domain name space and the proposed competing additional .au extension. Does Deloitte Australia have the relevant experience to be engaged in this crucal role? I personally do not think they do after my meeting with them to discuss the issues and facts around domain names. Just because a consulting company has an excellent reputation for consulting in various fields does not mean they really know or understand the Australian Domain Name market.

.

The Deloitte stuff is about ticking a box so the CEO can pass the buck when the whole thing goes pear shaped "we got advice!".

Those clowns will write whatever they are told to write after "liasing with their client". Watch as they completely flip their position.

 

[Scott.L]

Zero inquiries in 5 years.....zero. A good chunk of the .com.au's I've held have been similar. It is long odds compared to spending the money on .com

When I first started in this game I bought domains that best reflected my interests, Oh how I got it wrong, I invested money in domains to a point where I own the entire internet traffic related to those terms; I learned after years of asking myself why am i not getting interest in these domains? I went to valuation companies like estibot, godaddy, sedo and I got certificates that stated these domains are worth $xx,xxx each and after awhile I realised the gimick and novelty of valuation companies. Those domains are domains that require "development" and "business connections" to get the most income potential and i'm not a web developer and this niche is owned by global giants; domainers are not going to spend $$$$ to buy those domains and there are no Local giants in my chosen niche to sell into. I have held those domains for 5 to 10 years [one lowsy enquiry] Now, I focus on domain names relevent to what the market wants and not what I want the market to want.
You can pm if you want to know the niche.

 

[Scott.L]

From personal experience I have seen very healthy sales and an excellent ROI for .com.au names over recent years. $20 - $120 investment into $x,xxx and $xx,xxx sales. I have never sold a name under $x,xxx. I buy names I think will get at least this or personally I do not waste the time.

Astounding, whats the method?

 

[eBranding.com.au]

From personal experience I have seen very healthy sales and an excellent ROI for .com.au names over recent years.

That's been my experience too.

.com.au domains can be a terrific investment, provided you know what you're doing. If you make poor purchase decisions, then you'll get disappointing results.

Domain names have the capacity to generate very healthy returns that far exceed many other asset classes. Of course .com is the global 'gold standard' for investment, but there are also fantastic opportunities in our local namespace.

 

[snoopy]

Those domains are domains that require "development" and "business connections" to get the most income potential and i'm not a web developer and this niche is owned by global giants; domainers are not going to spend $$$$ to buy those domains and there are no Local giants in my chosen niche to sell into. I have held those domains for 5 to 10 years [one lowsy enquiry] Now, I focus on domain names relevent to what the market wants and not what I want the market to want.
You can pm if you want to know the niche.

Straight up those domains are worthless, if they require "business connections" or "development" that is just a nice way of saying "worthless".

I don't know if downlights is worthless or not, it went over 2k in auction which suggests it isn't but it has had zero inquiries. Similar situation to 40 com au, no inquires, no offers over about 10 years. Took me a lot of effort to even get $500. This is not something that happens in .com, I can't say I have ever spent 2k on a .com and got no inquires over a long period of time. Of all the .com.au's I have owned the inquiry rate is very low, some have sold but I've tended to to try and get a sale on any decent offer on those names. Of the other couple that I've sold one was at auction with one bidder (around 4k) and another was the result of a sale thread here after getting an offer at sedo (if I remember rightly (around 14k). So basically all 3 sales were to people associated with the domain name industry in some way.

I don't think I have ever sold a .com.au where someone has just made an approach of their own bat, that is not a good state of affairs where you basically have to chase buyers to move anything. A good name should get regular inquiries of its own accord.

 

[Scott.L]

you cant compare the two markets - .com.au and .com in terms of rate of enquiry is millions compared to billions - I did look in my portfolio of .com's and found Flaxseed.com I've had it for 7 years, zero enquiries, little revenue, it’s a duck - Flax prices were going through the roof when i got it; flax prices have declined over the years, perhapes this is the reason why I havent received any interest from anyone to buy it; But does that mean the .com market is underperforming? [flaxseed domain is not the niche i referred to in my previous post;]

 

[eBranding.com.au]

I don't think I have ever sold a .com.au where someone has just made an approach of their own bat, that is not a good state of affairs where you basically have to chase buyers to move anything. A good name should get regular inquiries of its own accord.

Can you give us some rough numbers so that we can put your experience in context: how many .com.au domains do you have?

 

[topflight]

Can you give us some rough numbers so that we can put your experience in context: how many .com.au domains do you have?

Geez a lot of .com.au bashing happening. The market isn't fluid but here are my numbers:
- 150 domains (100 that I believe I could get $500+ for, 20 that I think could fetch $2,500+)
- 4 sales all between $2,500 to $3,500 which were unsolicitied and they got my details for Ausregistry in the last 2 years

 

[DomainNames]

Astounding, whats the method?

register;

• .com.au
• no hyphens
• 1, 2 and even some 3 generic dictionary words
  
• before registering type the potential name into google "+xxx+xxxxx" and see the results . Look at companies using that term in their keywords or as their main business focus.
• Monetise the name with a company who also have a simple contact form for potential sales. You make money with the monetisation plus you can be contacted very easily. The more simply for someone to contact and make an offer is crucial.
  
• Reply back to suitable enquiries. Search google and IP address to see who the enquiry came from if they do not provide full details.

I have never even bothered to try and sell names by contacting potential buyers. All sales have been incoming enquiries.

I am so confident in the .com.au market I recently hand registered another 140 generic .com.au names for monetisation and development. I personally value every one of those at $x,xxx, a couple at $xx,xxx. I am aware of sales in that range for very similar domains.

I have also invested in some .com names ( $xx,xxx) to match the .com.au domain names where the websites have expanded into healthy expanding international businesses. Negotiating to buy one of the .com name took me 4 years. A similar .com name has received numerous legit offers over $1 million USD the owner has rejected. When it sells that will of course make the domain name news if no NDA is done.

 

[snoopy]

you cant compare the two markets - .com.au and .com in terms of rate of enquiry is millions compared to billions - I did look in my portfolio of .com's and found Flaxseed.com I've had it for 7 years, zero enquiries, little revenue, it’s a duck - Flax prices were going through the roof when i got it; flax prices have declined over the years, perhapes this is the reason why I havent received any interest from anyone to buy it; But does that mean the .com market is underperforming? [flaxseed domain is not the niche i referred to in my previous post;]

I am able to offer you $1000 AUD for the name or alternatively I can swap it for Downlights com au.

 

[Scott.L]

I am able to offer you $1000 AUD for the name or alternatively I can swap it for Downlights com au.

Ok, where were we? Ahhhh yes, you and I both know who is getting the better deal. Comparing the .com and .com.au is like describing the color red to a blind man -

 

[snoopy]

Well said. Fact is whatever you paid for the .com that chance of making a profit is good whereas I am wading in the swamp with the .com.au. No offers in 5 years! Not even 50 cents!

 

[Scott7]

No offers in 5 years! Not even 50 cents!

I once had a 5 cent offer for a .net.au ... although that's 5 cents more than I'd get from some people around here
The guy owned some excellent, developed domains in the same vertical, so I'm not sure what he was playing at.

 

[Scott.L]

Well said. Fact is whatever you paid for the .com that chance of making a profit is good whereas I am wading in the swamp with the .com.au. No offers in 5 years! Not even 50 cents!

I see the big boys throwing cash everywhere to get their hands on multimedia assets -
MelbIT $39 million acquisition of digital agency WME Group. 01/05/17
DN8 [CrazyD] $2.5 million acquisition of Net Logistics [hosting] 04/04/17
why? SMB are realising its worth it.