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Draft recommendations from the 2015 Names Policy Panel

Why are you encouraging people to continue to waste their time with such nonsense? If you really shared the concerns of the vast majority regarding this issue it might be better to be giving advice about governmental and legal avenues which can be taken to deal with it.

How is it a waste of time for DNT members to make submissions to share their points of view or advocate a position ? The panel process has been set up to enable all parties to have input into the process. The panel makes a recommendation after public consultation. Instead of criticising the process, you should make a contribution to it.

What 'governmental and legal avenues' are you referring to and to what end ?

I am very concerned with the industry. I have been involved in the domain industry for well over a decade, for those of you who know me, you will know that I was one of the people who lobbied and finally succeeded in getting monetisation considered a close and substantial connection (which is what many members on this forum rely on to register domains), I was also involved in lobbying to permit the sale of domain names (in the bad old days you couldnt sell domains except as part of a business). All of the things that I helped change came about through positive engagement in the panel process and lobbying, which is why I am encouraging DNT members to get involved.
 

DomainNames

Top Contributor
How to Get Politicians' Attention https://www.efa.org.au/Campaigns/lobby.html
Contacting Senators and Members
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Guidelines_for_Contacting_Senators_and_Members
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian_Search_Results?q=&sen=1&par=-1&gen=0&ps=0
BRUCE BILLSON MP SMALL BUSINESS MINISTER
http://bfb.ministers.treasury.gov.au/contact/
sbminister@treasury.gov.au
Contact:
Mailing Address:
PO Box 6022
House of Representatives
Parliament House
Canberra ACT 2600
Telephone:
Telephone: (02) 6277 7930
Facsimile: (02) 6273 0434
Office:
20 Davey Street
Frankston VIC 3199
Phone:
+61 (03) 9781 2333
Fax:
+61 (03) 9783 7912

_________
Malcolm Turnbull FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS MINISTER ( Communications Department is still untimately in charge of the Australian Domain Name Space even with their appointment of AUDA's back in 2001 ( After Melbourne IT lost the some say "Monopoly" on registrations and admin / policy )
http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/contact

Ground Floor, 287-289 New South Head Rd
Edgecliff, NSW, 2027
Postal Address
PO Box 545,
Edgecliff, NSW 2027

Tel: 02 9327 3988
Fax: 02 9327 2533
Email: malcolm.turnbull.mp@aph.gov.au
Parliament House Contact
PO Box 6022, House of Representatives
Parliament House, Canberra, ACT 2600
Tel: 02 6277 7480
Fax: 02 6277 3776
 

DomainNames

Top Contributor
How to Contact & Effectiveness of Methods for Politicians
The effectiveness of methods of contact from most effective to least effective are:
  • Face to face meeting:
    Face to face meetings with your representative and/or a relevant member of their staff are the most effective. A meeting usually needs to be arranged at least a week (and often more) in advance, and may be particularly difficult to organise for a day during weeks when Parliament is sitting.
  • Letter:
    A handwritten, or typed and signed letter, is the most effective means of communication (other than a face to face meeting). It is far more effective than photocopied form letters, postcard campaigns or emails. Some politicians regard handwritten letters more highly than typewritten letters (some of these are technologically illiterate, and some find it convenient to claim the sender probably just cut and pasted what someone else said without thinking about the issue themself).
    See tips for writing letters later herein.
  • Telephone call:
    A phone call to your representative's office (local electorate office or at Parliament House) is generally more effective than sending email, but is less effective than writing and mailing a letter.
  • Email is by far the least effective way of communicating your views to your representative/s.
 

findtim

Top Contributor
You could also ask:

Is there any people pushing against the change to promote their own benefit?
OF COURSE, but i would say "promote" but more "protect" and there is a HUGE difference in those 2 words.

i manage domain names for my clients, i don't charge the reg fee, i actually make a $70 profit and I AM AGAINST THIS, so effectively i am potentially giving away over $28,000 of EXTRA income p/a right now + my fees to facilitate the initial CRAP that i will have to deal with, so basically i'd estimate for this change to NOT happen i will NOT get @ $100K extra in the year it happens. so what does that say to you ? i'm an idiot or do i truly believe this is wrong ?
tim
 

Horshack

Top Contributor
I hate to say it but a handful of submissions out of 3 million registrations is hardly going to show that public opinion is against this decision. It looks like the course is set. After all is said and done, I'm sure people will look back and ask what was all of the fuss about.
 

elbranch

Top Contributor
How is it a waste of time for DNT members to make submissions to share their points of view or advocate a position ? The panel process has been set up to enable all parties to have input into the process. The panel makes a recommendation after public consultation. Instead of criticising the process, you should make a contribution to it.
It seems that you have done a great deal more than me and most others to improve the industry and for that you deserve our gratitude.

Did you read my post? It was an abbreviated version of a previous post. auDA said they (direct quote) "have not yet reached a consensus" and called for comments and suggestions.

The overwhelming majority of those comments and suggestions involved the .com.au owner having priority in the allocation of the .au (the introduction of which seems to have been accepted), but auDA then say they will be ignoring the comments and suggestions because they want to allocate the .au in a way which conflicts with this.

Now they have made up their minds, as they have stated, why do you think things will change if the same overwhelming majority of submissions favour .com.au owners having priority when this was ignored when they hadn't made up their minds?
 

findtim

Top Contributor
I hate to say it but a handful of submissions out of 3 million registrations is hardly going to show that public opinion is against this decision. It looks like the course is set. After all is said and done, I'm sure people will look back and ask what was all of the fuss about.
what a load of rubbish, things "don't happen" you MAKE " things happen SO make it happen, i can't believe there are people who just give up, dnt members are here for a reason and thats not to let all their domains drop away or be FORCED into spending more money for what THEY have created.

i've only been a short time in this industry but from what i have seen is domainers have BUILT the .com.au space, not auda, domainers have promoted the benefits of good domains, have created a fantastic opportunity for businesses to INCREASE their income through an great online presence , their knowledge to guide the business with development and marketing, and i coud go on and on but now i am having to go and WASTE my time to tell my clients that they need to fill out a survey to save their online identity, and if its not saved i am then going to have to charge them a fee to protect it, and if for some reason someone owns the .net.au maybe have to be in an auction !!!! F THAT

if you can't be bother to fill out a form then bugger off from the industry, harsh but true, you will just be that whinging member hard done by in the future, everybody has a right to an opinion but being a downer is a downer.

get on the bandwagon or get off, it is an injustice that auda is not notifying EVERY domain name owner of the potential effects to their domain name situation, its like selling land underneath them, it like someone being able to set up a house on your front lawn, auda are not IMO complying with what i would consider just due diligence on making a decision to change a fundamental expectation by the average australian public.

i'm not eloquent with words but i know what i feel is right and wrong, if there are 3 million domain names registered then there should IMO be 3 million votes, how bloody hard is that to consider, you get fined if you dont vote at election time for the government but NO, we have a pissy 100+ members in auda and "THATS THE WAY THEY LIKE IT "

as stated earlier auda has every domain owners email address , so send them an email !
PLEASE READ THIS : i got an email from CERT the other day saying one of my sites had been reported as having a malware intrusion, COOL, thanks. so i rang them, the guy said " ohh yeh, we get reports and automatically send out warnings so you know, " and i said " so i'll go fix it thanks......... am i in trouble? "
he said " ohh no, its just a courtesy email that we send out. we send out thousands a day "
WELL, thats not a big deal, a government department is giving me info, GREAT, they aren't spamming me, i've only had 2 in the last 15 yrs ! but it was something that i needed to know as it was an olddddddddddddd website.

so WHY can't we have 3 million votes ? WHY ! because auda will not inform the CONCERNED parties whats going on, i rang auda and was told " ohh but we have been on radio in sydney .......... ahhhh, my clients live in byron bay ! this is a farce.

they are going to say " we did this......... , and this..... and this....... and this...... " and then made a decision

what they won't say is " oooohhhhhhhhhh, but we only told 100 people what we are planning to do " and this is where WE come in, we have to tell our clients, our friends who own websites, anybody, everybody and unfortunately not everybody reads DNT.

SOOOOO, its up to US, nobody else, get on the phone, email, followup, send links, follow up, then followup

i'm only posting to motivate you and as erhan says "state if you like the idea or if you don't " , i fully accept some people might like the idea and i don't hide that i do not, so the same tactic is for both BUT at least will will get more information so the committee can make the correct recommendations.

please submit a reply to auda

tim
 

robert

Top Contributor
it like someone being able to set up a house on your front lawn.
<i'm not eloquent with words.>
tim

I couldn't have said it better myself. That is quite eloquent, Tim.

This new .au domain space is exactly like someone literally rolling up out front of your house, where you currently live, and parking their caravan on your front lawn and saying, I NOW LIVE HERE TOO, and I don't have to give you first rights to park your own caravan here, on your own property. Bad luck. And when your family and friends come over, they will often accidentally knock on the strangers' caravan first, instead of knocking at your front door, mistaking these new strangers for you.
 

DomainNames

Top Contributor
Some have been trying to push .au for years! Every 4 years they push again
http://www.auda.org.au/news/2011/auda-board-accepts-final-report-of-2010-names-policy-panel/
1H: Direct registrations under .au

Current policy:
1.51 It has never been possible for people to register a domain name directly under .au (eg.domainname.au). Instead, the .au domain is structured into a number of 2LDs and people must register their domain name as a 3LD (eg. domainname.com.au, domainname.org.au). The .au 2LD hierarchy was created by the first administrator of the .au domain, Robert Elz.
Issues:
1.52 The issue of direct registrations under .au was last considered by the 2007 Names Policy Panel, which recommended that .au not be opened up to direct registrations at that time. The 2007 Panel found that there was no groundswell of support for direct registrations, and even among those who supported it, there was no agreement on a method of implementation.
Public consultation outcomes:
1.53 The Panel notes that the majority of public comments were against allowing direct registrations under .au. People thought that the current 2LD hierarchy is well-known andunderstood, and introducing direct registrations would cause unnecessary confusion for little public benefit.
Views of the Panel:
1.54 The Panel notes that there does not seem to have been any shift in public opinion since the issue of direct registrations under .au was last considered in 2007.
1.55 Members of the current Panel acknowledge arguments that direct registrations have been successfully introduced in other ccTLDs. However, the Panel agrees that such a major change to the Australian DNS would require a much stronger level of support from the community than has been demonstrated through this consultation process.
RECOMMENDATION 1H
The Panel recommends that direct registrations under .au not be allowed at this time.
 

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It seems that you have done a great deal more than me and most others to improve the industry and for that you deserve our gratitude.

Did you read my post? It was an abbreviated version of a previous post. auDA said they (direct quote) "have not yet reached a consensus" and called for comments and suggestions.

The overwhelming majority of those comments and suggestions involved the .com.au owner having priority in the allocation of the .au (the introduction of which seems to have been accepted), but auDA then say they will be ignoring the comments and suggestions because they want to allocate the .au in a way which conflicts with this.

Now they have made up their minds, as they have stated, why do you think things will change if the same overwhelming majority of submissions favour .com.au owners having priority when this was ignored when they hadn't made up their minds?

Thanks ElBranch - auDA has not made up its mind at all. This is a Panel recommendation not an auDA one. After the Panel gives its recommendations it then goes to the auDA Board for approval or rejection. The point I was making is that you can influence the Panel if DNT members put a strong position (what ever that may be) with facts advocating a particular view, those positions are also conveyed to the board before it makes its decision.
 

elbranch

Top Contributor
In 2002 auDA auctioned off previously restricted generic .com.au domain names, some of which sold in the tens of thousands of dollars.
http://www.auda.org.au/news/2002/auda-generic-domain-names-auction/

If auDA believes that .net.au domains are equal to .com.au domains, why didn't auDA also auction off the generic .net.au domains rather than just let people hand register them if they wanted them?

Because they are not equal, auDA knows they are not equal, and not enough people would have been interested to warrant having an auction for .net.au domain names.

They are still not equal but auDA proposes that .net.au ownership, which even today can be bought for just $25, has the same eligibility for ownership of a .au as a .com.au which might have been sold by auDA itself for tens of thousands of dollars 13 years ago in 2002.
 

Andrew

Archived Member
You're all carrying on about nothing. Drop the emotion and think it though. Panellists and policy makers don't give any weight to emotional, self-interest driven fulmination.

Proposed equal footing between .com.au and .net.au holders would increase the value of .net.au. But at the end of the day, .au would fail regardless. No-one wants to lose traffic to the .com.au, which would be certain to eventuate. If history is any indicator, moreover, the .au extension would take 7-10 years to gain any authority on Google. Furthermore, neither Google itself nor any other well-established, authoritative site would migrate to .au, meaning the extension on the lips of Australians will forever be “.com.au”.

With 300,000 names registered, and millions invested in the SEO of those names, .net.au will remain number two. –No .net.au holder would be stupid enough to migrate to .au and risk losing a further 5-10% of their type-in-traffic to .com.au, especially since .au would have no ranking value on Google (new extensions have no or low ranking value). Inclusion of the “.net” in .net.au is what makes it distinctive, something that .au would fail to be.

Even less likely would be .com.au migration to .au. No one cares about ‘shorter’ if the corollary is 'confusing' and/or 'less intuitive' or 'less memorable'. .co didn’t touch .com. .nz has failed, and .uk has failed. Do a Google.co.nz or Google.co.uk search for a competitive keyword or two and see for yourself. Also note that neither Google.nz nor Google.uk even resolve! .au, just like .nz, .uk and the new TLDs, would be another classic case of regulatory capture with little or no utility to consumers. Hence .au would prove to be just as insipid as the other TLD latecomers.
 

Andrew

Archived Member
Further to my comment earlier, there is no way that auDA would auction .au between .com.au and .net.au (and .org.au and .gov.au and .asn.au) registrants. To do so would be inimical to 200 years of common law as the concession that existing registrants have a greater right to .au than all others itself concedes there are rights and/or legitimate expectations held by such registrants that are capable of infraction. If those registrants are compelled to expend more than a nominal amount to protect their existing rights (or arguably, any amount), then this would be a diminution of their existing rights. Fortunately, sensible minds, guided by Erhan Karabardak among others, will no doubt prevail.
 

Horshack

Top Contributor
I'm surprised to see the reaction to all of this. Couldn't this actually be an opportunity for domainers. If this goes ahead I expect this to follow the .NZ process without any auctions. Some auctions would make good viewing though if it heads down that path.
 

DomainNames

Top Contributor
I'm surprised to see the reaction to all of this. Couldn't this actually be an opportunity for domainers. If this goes ahead I expect this to follow the .NZ process without any auctions. Some auctions would make good viewing though if it heads down that path.

- There was never a restriction to buy a .com, .co.uk or .co.nz. It was always open to anyone to register these extensions from anywhere in the world,
- There was less tape
- You could freely buy and sell them whenever you wanted and in most cases the sale included the remaining balance of the registration period
- The administrators of .com, .co.uk, .co.nz never auctioned off names to the highest bidder
- Auda, Its Board and Oanel after many years of the same consults have the facts in front of them already said NO.
- There are over 2 million small businesses with .com.au domain names. 99.99% of them could be affected if a competitor got the same domain name as theirs but instead of .com.au their competitor used .au. These 2 million businesses do not have the knowledge what has been proposed, the added costs, IP and damage it could incur on them. If you owned RealEstate.com.au and you had spent hundreds of millions building it would you like to be up against RealEstate.au or BathurstRealEstate.com.au v BathurstRealEstate.au
Hotels.com.au v Hotels.Au
News.com.au v News.Au
Lawyers.com.au v Lawyers.Au

- Some people deciding the outcome have been asked if their would be any conflict of interest for them in them voting they want it changed.
- The more the new .Au is promoted the more confusion and damage to existing registrants it will cause.
- Do not doubt it will be heavily promoted to bring in this detrimental change and sell it plus make from the long term renewal money.
- Some people may already be calculating into their budgets the possible financial gain of an extra 3 million.com.au owners being scared into paying to defense register the .au so of course they will back the push with their finances and marketing, blogs, press releases, media releases now... Some may try to promote it as " open up" give more choice"....it's all smoke and mirrors for $$$ by some, by others it is ignorance
- What right minded .com.au owners would want someone else able to register the exact same name but with .au instead of their own .com.au and compete against them?
- Auda must ask all 3 million registrants to vote and in the survey or voting form explain the possible extra costs, competition, IP disputes, confusions, damage to busineses it also may cause. Wouldn't this be the fairest way?
- INVITE ALL 2 MILLION + .COM.AU REGISTRANT SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS TO VOTE not base such a radical change on a handful of board, auda and panel mambers... some who may themselves be very new and far less knowledgable on the Australian domain system and it's history compared to others.
 

eBranding.com.au

Top Contributor
I'm surprised to see the reaction to all of this. Couldn't this actually be an opportunity for domainers.
For those that have businesses and trademarks, some of the proposals are quite concerning. When you've invested substantial funds into your IP (domains, trademarks, business name, logo, marketing activities etc..), to then have .au be released, and your brand be available to anyone for registration in a 'free for all' situation or an auction ....that's absolutely crazy in my opinion. At the moment much of the discussion is based on assumptions, because we don't really have much detail at all on how the processes would work.

As a domainer, there's the risk that the value of our investments will be diluted, potentially quite significantly. There's also the rather daunting question of "do I buy (or try to buy) the matching .au for all of my particularly valuable domains"?
 

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