Blackout Week Protest

[DomainShield]

That's assuming existing com.au holders are given rights. What if it goes to the holder with the earliest create date, as has been suggested?

That potentially means the com.au you paid thousands of dollars for on the drops is going to lose value because the net.au holder will pick up the .au for $20.

Exactly... we need to be sure that there is a strong message that .com.au holders get preference. If everyone is caught up trying to debate the merits of the YES/NO argument during the discussion of the HOW then things like that get lost in the midst of the conversation.

Not only that, but if someone builds out a site on the .au version of your domain (and assuming they're doing so legitimately) this could affect your business as a result of confusion. Lost website traffic, lost emails, confusion all over...

The same risk exists for someone grabbing the .id.au version of your domain or the .melbourne or the .xyz. You will still have the same rights and remedies open to you if someone does this to you. In fact you are better off with them grabbing the .au rather than the .xyz or .us or .sydney version of "your" brand since the .au will be covered by the auDRP process and you can argue registration in bad faith.

Why do you think it's a good result for everyone? What's the benefit for the typical small business owner? Or large company for that matter?

Small business owners will be protected from the risk of losing their domain due to a cancelled/deregistered ABN complaint. Bear in mind that I have audited this once and more than 10% of .com.au domains have cancelled ABN/ACN details and the older the domain the more likely it is to be affected by this.
Large companies can have better control over their url shortening for use in social media. Shortened urls have a surprisingly long lifespans and the companies providing free shortening services are under no obligation to always direct the link to where you first sent it.
Domainers are going to be able to sell their .au domains to a larger market, think about all the artists, protestors bloggers and students who might be interested in a .au domain in the future.

The only possible benefit I can see is having a shorter domain. If businesses want to go down that path of using the .au (rather than just having it as a defensive registration) they'll incur thousands of dollars in costs for changing their website, reprinting stationery, changing signage and marketing etc etc.

If they want to invest money in moving their site for the perceived benefits then it is up to them to make that call. The current scenario is that they are forced to go elsewhere to get shorter urls for campaigns. Our own Prime Minister uses au.pm for his social media shortening. So we are trusting the ultimate control of the PMs social media links to foreign ownership and control because we don't have the options available here.

That shorter domain name would have to provide a big benefit to justify all those costs. Would it though? I doubt it.

A majority of people surveyed happen so far don't doubt it. I personally don't doubt it at all and will be an "early adopter" when it finally happens.

How is dropping .com from a domain name innovative? Not every change is an innovation.

I agree it is not innovative at all in fact we are the last of the large ccTLDs to adopt it. However the people who are responsible for all the innovation we have seen recently (Facebook, Google, Uber, Whatsapp) where all started by students in dormitories looking to solve a problem. They all registered their first domains without a business plan and before they even considered business name registrations etc. My point is that the most innovative people in Australia right now are not eligible for a com.au domain so when they start down the path of using a .xyz or a .sydney domain they tend to stick to their brand and extension for the foreseeable future.

For me personally, direct registrations aren't going to change my life. I'm not a domainer. I don't have a massive portfolio. For my businesses, I have the com.au and net.au for any important domains, so in theory we shouldn't miss out.

I certainly wouldn't be changing to the .au, but I would register them defensively. That cost certainly wouldn't change my life, but it would annoy me having to pay any amount of money that is unnecessary.

How are business owners and consumers really benefiting?

You are not going to be forced to pay money, this is not a tax on .com.au owners. It is an opportunity for current registrants to use a different extension if they want and more importantly it is an opportunity for ALL future registrants to have an easier, shorter domain with less attached risk which is able to be registered without fuss.

 

[Andrew Wright]

Thankfully that bad idea got overturned through the normal auDA process of getting feedback and then clarifying their position. The problem with the idea of direct registration being a "bad idea" is that they spent time and money trying to prove it was a bad idea and instead found out that there is majority support for the idea.

What is it going to take to get you to understand that this is happening and that you should already be thinking about "how" you want it to look.

So, let me get this right.

auDA can change their position on bringing the registry in house, removing minutes from their website, and a member COC, but they can't change their position on direct registration? Is that right?

 

[DomainShield]

I own 5 .com.au domains and my wife owns 10. I don't think many would want to pay twice for basically the same domain.

I know you are a .com only investor with a grudge to bear about the success of .au domains. I am not arguing to convince you of anything. I am however arguing with you because if anyone reads this today or in the future I don't want your assumptions to seem like facts. It is my once per year rant in which I argue with all the theories you have been repeating all year long while I've been catching up on Game of Thrones.

Of course not, because you are "a humanist who is trying to make peace with living in a capitalist society" rather than a guy trying to double up on registration revenue.

My margin on average domain registrations and renewals is less than $2. After credit card fees there is about $1 left over two years. I currently have 9,183 domain under management. If you think I sat on a Names Panel for 10 months so I can increase my domain registration profit by $5K per year then you are loopy.

The way I turn a profit is when domainers get opportunities to sell more domains so they make more profit so they can come back and buy more domains from me on the drops.

 

[DomainShield]

So, let me get this right.

auDA can change their position on bringing the registry in house, removing minutes from their website, and a member COC, but they can't change their position on direct registration? Is that right?

That is correct. They are accountable for changes they make, so when there is a backlash they can justify the change. When it comes to direct registration they need to be able to justify the change in direction. So if you want to give them a chance to overturn it (assuming they all want to) you will need to give them a reason that holds up to public scrutiny.

 

[Andrew Wright]

That is correct. They are accountable for changes they make, so when there is a backlash they can justify the change .

So, if I'm right, what you are saying then is just don't roll over and accept it - there's just not been enough of a backlash yet...

 

[robert]

The best thing I have ever read on DNTrade just occurred...

Snoopy: I own 5 .com.au domains
DomainShield: I know you are a .com-only investor with a grudge to bear about the success of .au domains. I am not arguing to convince you of anything. I am however arguing with you because if anyone reads this today or in the future I don't want your assumptions to seem like facts.

I only wish I could use the full version as my signature from now on, instead of the shortened version I will have to live with.

 

[Bacon Farmer]

Small things amuse small minds.

 

[DomainShield]

So, if I'm right, what you are saying then is just don't roll over and accept it - there's just not been enough of a backlash yet...

I am actually advising you to roll over and take it because your idea lacks majority support. If you disagree with me you are entitled to test public opinions by creating a backlash. I think you are wasting an opportunity to give input to the "how" discussion if you are lazy and try to create a backlash during the next round of public consultation which will be calling for submissions on the "how" not the "if" of direct registration.

I am advising you to be professional and put forward a clear case for giving .com.au domains preference over older domains.
I am advising you to ask for grandfathering rights in order to minimise the short term effects of the registration costs.
I would also advise you to ask politely to scrap the close and substantial connection rule for all extensions leaving the auDRP process to be used by big companies to protect their brands and trademarks.
I would also advise you to ask to remove the ABN/ACN restrictions on .com.au (this will unfortunately not happen because it does not have majority support yet)
I would advise to ask for privacy protection to be allowed at the registry level. You pay a little extra and your full contact details are stored at the registry but the public whois has privacy protection in place. The registry then forwards requests sent to the privacy protection email address to your actual email address. The registry will also provide the proper whois details to law enforcement agencies, auDA and to the courts when required to do so by law.

 

[Bacon Farmer]

Have you actually explained direct registrations to a small business person?

 

[robert]

Yes. Many. They love it.

I don't even really have to say anything of value anymore. It's all automated! And the day was already going so well...

 

[robert]

YES!
Domain Shield is BACK ON!
<grin>

 

[snoopy]

My margin on average domain registrations and renewals is less than $2. After credit card fees there is about $1 left over two years. I currently have 9,183 domain under management. If you think I sat on a Names Panel for 10 months so I can increase my domain registration profit by $5K per year then you are loopy.

If it is going to increase your profit by $5,000 year then of course will be in favour of it.

 

[Shane]

The same risk exists for someone grabbing the .id.au version of your domain or the .melbourne or the .xyz. You will still have the same rights and remedies open to you if someone does this to you. In fact you are better off with them grabbing the .au rather than the .xyz or .us or .sydney version of "your" brand since the .au will be covered by the auDRP process and you can argue registration in bad faith.

Using my business as an example, I don't care if someone registers traderisk.xyz or traderisk.melbourne. They mean nothing to me and no one is going to type in the wrong domain or, perhaps more importantly, get the email address wrong.

But if there's a traderisk.com.au and traderisk.au out there (not to mention traderisk.com), there is huge potential for confusion. That does nothing but weaken the name space in my opinion.

Small business owners will be protected from the risk of losing their domain due to a cancelled/deregistered ABN complaint. Bear in mind that I have audited this once and more than 10% of .com.au domains have cancelled ABN/ACN details and the older the domain the more likely it is to be affected by this.

Domainers are going to be able to sell their .au domains to a larger market, think about all the artists, protestors bloggers and students who might be interested in a .au domain in the future.

You are not going to be forced to pay money, this is not a tax on .com.au owners. It is an opportunity for current registrants to use a different extension if they want and more importantly it is an opportunity for ALL future registrants to have an easier, shorter domain with less attached risk which is able to be registered without fuss.

Direct registrations and removing the ABN requirement can be mutually exclusive. You are talking as if the only way to remove the ABN requirement is to have direct registrations.

If removing the ABN requirement is such a great idea (which I agree it is) then why don't we just do that for com.au? Why do we need another confusing extension?

I agree it is not innovative at all in fact we are the last of the large ccTLDs to adopt it. However the people who are responsible for all the innovation we have seen recently (Facebook, Google, Uber, Whatsapp) where all started by students in dormitories looking to solve a problem. They all registered their first domains without a business plan and before they even considered business name registrations etc. My point is that the most innovative people in Australia right now are not eligible for a com.au domain so when they start down the path of using a .xyz or a .sydney domain they tend to stick to their brand and extension for the foreseeable future.

Do you really believe that if we had direct registrations, and each of those four companies were started by Australians, some of the world's most visited websites would be facebook.au, google.au, uber.au and whatsapp.au? Come on... They use global extensions because they're targeting a global market.

It seems that the only genuine benefit of direct registrations is the shorter domain and the ability to use them as URL shorteners. That's a pretty weak benefit.

 

[Shane]

Yes. Many. They love it.

Hi Robert. I'm interested to know why they love it. Is it just because of the shorter domain?

I've also spoken to a lot of small business owners, and the feedback has been overall negative. It's the confusion that seems to be the biggest issue for those I speak with.

Clients of mine are predominantly running trade businesses, so they're probably not as tech savvy as your typical clients, but they still rely on their website for their business.

 

[snoopy]

You are talking as if the only way to remove the ABN requirement is to have direct registrations.

If removing the ABN requirement is such a great idea (which I agree it is) then why don't we just do that for com.au? Why do we need another confusing extension?

That is what is comes down to, the ABN rule has had its day, it is holding back the extension because much of the the future growth is likely to be mums, dads and students who want to start something up.

Bringing in a new extension whilst not fixing up the obvious problem with the current extension, the one people actually want, isn't going to solve anything.

AUDA tried the strategy that Domain Shield is suggesting once before with the introduction of .id.au, that was supposedly the answer to everyday people not having access to .com.au.

 

[eBranding.com.au]

I've also spoken to a lot of small business owners, and the feedback has been overall negative. It's the confusion that seems to be the biggest issue for those I speak with.

That's been my experience too.

I speak with a lot of businesses, particularly SMEs, and the feedback on direct registrations has been overwhelmingly negative.

 

[Data Glasses]

Radio Ad :: "Remember folks we are FreeBeer.Au, not that other better established website FreeBeer.Com.Au' If you are confused just do a google search ....

 

[Andrew Wright]

Radio Ad :: "Remember folks we are FreeBeer.Au, not that other better established website FreeBeer.Com.Au' If you are confused just do a google search ....

Sorry was that FreeBeerAu.com.au?

 

[Data Glasses]

Sorry was that FreeBeerAu.

Available in all Tlds ..

 

[snoopy]

Radio Ad :: "Remember folks we are FreeBeer.Au, not that other better established website FreeBeer.Com.Au' If you are confused just do a google search ....

Yep, it will be like new tlds adding in www. and people bolding .net's. Uphill battle when the name is illogical/non standard.