Offering The Reserve Price To The Highest Bidder On AMA Domains

[Chris.C]

OK so I put a few domains up for sale on the AMA today and one in particular was less than $100 away from hitting my reserve.

What are the prospects for having the highest bidder on AMA domains that don't reach reserve automatically receiving an email with a buy it now price at reserve?

I also think it could add additional incentive to bidders on AMA domains to want to make sure even if they don't hit reserve that they win so they get first look at the reserve price.

Thoughts?

 

[AnthonyP]

In theory your reserve should be the minimum you could possible bear to part with a domain for. In my opinion you should feel relieved if a domain just misses your reserve.

The idea with an auction is to get it into the market and then let bidding frenzy drive up the price, if your domains are only just reaching the reserve price then you are not getting the true benefit of an auction.

All these idea for soft options, second chances and first looks will over time be factored into the buyers behavior and will start to result in lower initial bids.

My goal is to get your domain on the market in a no-second chance auction where the buyers all know this is a now or never opportunity to get a great domain name.

 

[Chris.C]

In theory your reserve should be the minimum you could possible bear to part with a domain for. In my opinion you should feel relieved if a domain just misses your reserve.

My reserve was my minimum... I'm definitely not going to lose sleep hanging onto the domain.

I was just saying if you guys wanted to get extra sales across the line then you should strike while the iron is hot.

I relisted a domain today that received a bid of $200+ a couple of weeks ago, today it passed in with no bids. That buyer may longer be interested and a sale may now be lost, where as if an email with a buy it now price that wasn't ridiculously above his bid price might have coaxed him into buying and everyone would have won - now no one wins.

I'm just saying I'm not seeing the downside to giving buyers a second bite at the cherry and NetFleet doesn't want buyers going away either.

To keep buyers honest why not just set it so the follow up email with a buy it now at reserve is only sent if the buyer is within 50% of the reserve price and allow sellers to opt out of the email if they choose so that buyers aren't guaranteed a follow up offer post the sale giving them incentive to try and buy it today.

The idea with an auction is to get it into the market and then let bidding frenzy drive up the price, if your domains are only just reaching the reserve price then you are not getting the true benefit of an auction.

That's a nice "theory" I have my doubts about how it would play out in "reality"...

But there is only one way to find out, so if you want to prove that no reserve outperforms reserve, I'd be happy to put it to the test. You guys guarantee that if I put the domain up for no reserve auction that regardless of what the auction result is I'll receive at least what it passed in for today on the AMA and then to be fair I'll cap my upside and say that if it goes above the reserve I had today, I don't get any of it...



Let me know if you are interested.



Alternatively why don't you offer a "put it on the market" button then where a seller at any time can opt to remove the reserve and put the domain officially on the market.

In today's case the offer that was within $100 of my reserve was made many hours before the end of the auction I would have seriously thought about pushing that button, and who knows maybe you would have been right and once everyone knew it was on the market it would have turned into a bidding frenzy and I would have achieve well in excess of my reserve.

All these idea for soft options, second chances and first looks will over time be factored into the buyers behavior and will start to result in lower initial bids.

That's why reserves are required... so people don't optimize their bidding at the expense of the seller.

My goal is to get your domain on the market in a no-second chance auction where the buyers all know this is a now or never opportunity to get a great domain name.

Once again it sounds good in theory and I'm happy to provide you some domains to test it in practice if you are willing to put some guarantees in place.

 

[AnthonyP]

My reserve was my minimum... I'm definitely not going to lose sleep hanging onto the domain.

Then I don't understand why we are having this conversation

I was just saying if you guys wanted to get extra sales across the line then you should strike while the iron is hot.

I relisted a domain today that received a bid of $200+ a couple of weeks ago, today it passed in with no bids. That buyer may longer be interested and a sale may now be lost, where as if an email with a buy it now price that wasn't ridiculously above his bid price might have coaxed him into buying and everyone would have won - now no one wins.

I'm just saying I'm not seeing the downside to giving buyers a second bite at the cherry and NetFleet doesn't want buyers going away either.

The downside is impossible to see since it is very hard to read peoples minds, but I am firm believer that if there are soft alternative options to an auction then buyers will try to exploit this and will not bid as hard or might not bid at all.

To keep buyers honest why not just set it so the follow up email with a buy it now at reserve is only sent if the buyer is within 50% of the reserve price and allow sellers to opt out of the email if they choose so that buyers aren't guaranteed a follow up offer post the sale giving them incentive to try and buy it today.

This will lead to the sellers unwittingly or even intentionally putting in higher reserves since they are well aware of the followup offers. In theory both parties have to be kept honest which is not feasible.

That's a nice "theory" I have my doubts about how it would play out in "reality"...

But there is only one way to find out, so if you want to prove that no reserve outperforms reserve, I'd be happy to put it to the test. You guys guarantee that if I put the domain up for no reserve auction that regardless of what the auction result is I'll receive at least what it passed in for today on the AMA and then to be fair I'll cap my upside and say that if it goes above the reserve I had today, I don't get any of it...



Let me know if you are interested.

Did you notice what happened to HousePlans.com.au today?

Remember this thread where you said "It's a cracking domain with some great metrics. I would have loved to have seen how it performed if it had of been on the front page. "
https://www.dntrade.com.au/important-upcoming-changes-netfleet-com-t6329p13.html

It was turned in at $3000 back then and it sold today in a no-reserve auction for $3,223 While this is not a huge result it is still solid and it shows how a no reserve auction gets better results. I am also sure there are more examples of this.

Alternatively why don't you offer a "put it on the market" button then where a seller at any time can opt to remove the reserve and put the domain officially on the market.

In today's case the offer that was within $100 of my reserve was made many hours before the end of the auction I would have seriously thought about pushing that button, and who knows maybe you would have been right and once everyone knew it was on the market it would have turned into a bidding frenzy and I would have achieve well in excess of my reserve.

That's why reserves are required... so people don't optimize their bidding at the expense of the seller.

Once again it sounds good in theory and I'm happy to provide you some domains to test it in practice if you are willing to put some guarantees in place.

I am very close to being convinced that this is a good idea and I was looking into the logistics of implementing this. Basic idea was you could lower your reserve to match the current asking price so that if they bid $1 more then it will be on the market. At the moment I am focusing on a "push to auction" option from the domain catalogue which will take priority over this.

 

[geodomains]

Originally Posted by Chris.C View Post
Alternatively why don't you offer a "put it on the market" button then where a seller at any time can opt to remove the reserve and put the domain officially on the market.

+1

 

[Chris.C]

Then I don't understand why we are having this conversation

It's just a suggestion to help netfleet close a few more deals...



Honestly I doesn't really worry me that much, actually its sometimes nice to have a domain pass in just under reserve because you think, "sweet my valuation is pretty reasonable and maybe if I ever put it up for sale again maybe I'll do a bit more marketing and I might be able to get an even better price for it in the future so I'm glad it didn't sell today"...

But of course that isn't what NetFleet wants, nor is what most domainers should look to do either, so I would have though NetFleet would be all about pushing to squeeze those extra few dollars out of buyers to get the deal to happen.

I just mentioned it because at the same time it always seems like a missed opportunity in this industry where transactions are so infrequent when a buyer and seller are within 10% - 20% of each other but can't find terms.

The downside is impossible to see since it is very hard to read peoples minds, but I am firm believer that if there are soft alternative options to an auction then buyers will try to exploit this and will not bid as hard or might not bid at all.

Then you just have to give them incentives to not try and game the system.

That normally involves creating a situation where they fear they may miss out if they don't bid their highest bid.

This will lead to the sellers unwittingly or even intentionally putting in higher reserves since they are well aware of the followup offers. In theory both parties have to be kept honest which is not feasible.

Potentially... but at the same time sellers that genuinely want to sell are always going have to come down in price and meet the market.

NetFleet's ambition should always be to motivate as many of the current fence sitters to put their domains up for auction as possible, but that will only happen if they see the AMA as a selling method that will yield good returns with low risk.

Did you notice what happened to HousePlans.com.au today?

Remember this thread where you said "It's a cracking domain with some great metrics. I would have loved to have seen how it performed if it had of been on the front page. "
https://www.dntrade.com.au/important-upcoming-changes-netfleet-com-t6329p13.html

It was turned in at $3000 back then and it sold today in a no-reserve auction for $3,223 While this is not a huge result it is still solid and it shows how a no reserve auction gets better results. I am also sure there are more examples of this.

HAHAHA I had forgot all about that.

I guess that is a positive result which tentatively suggests that at least you won't do worse than if you had a reserve... but it's FAR from compelling and I'd need to see a lot more examples of this before I rushed to list and truly decent domains for no reserve auction.

TBH I think the seller has every right to be a bit disappointed - they took a HUGE risk putting it up for no reserve and ultimately they only got $223 extra for all that additional risk...

And let's not forget that it passed in at $3000 which was obviously a price they were not happy with previously. So I suspect they won't be over the moon with $3223 anyway...

I am very close to being convinced that this is a good idea and I was looking into the logistics of implementing this. Basic idea was you could lower your reserve to match the current asking price so that if they bid $1 more then it will be on the market. At the moment I am focusing on a "push to auction" option from the domain catalogue which will take priority over this.

I would seriously consider NOT making it +$1.

Today I'd say the majority of the domains I had listed didn't get anymore bids after 60 minutes to go, so I think 95% would still pass in if they required an additional bid.

Plus I know I wouldn't click the button if it didn't instantly put my domain on the front page, because if it needs one more bid to go to the front page there is a good chance you'd be waiting until the final seconds for that bid (if one was to come at all) which would defeat the purpose of being pushed to market.

 

[Oz.]

FWIW...I bought HousePlans.com.au. Last minute decision to bid.

 

[Rhythm]

Alternatively why don't you offer a "put it on the market" button then where a seller at any time can opt to remove the reserve and put the domain officially on the market..

I was thinking of something like this. +1

 

[Oz.]

Alternatively why don't you offer a "put it on the market" button then where a seller at any time can opt to remove the reserve and put the domain officially on the market..

+1 too.

 

[DomainNames]

FWIW...I bought HousePlans.com.au. Last minute decision to bid.

best of luck with it.

 

[Oz.]

best of luck with it.

Thanks.

Anthony, another suggestion.

Could you also add a tickbox filter under the "Selling Today, All Auctions" radio boxes, saying something like "Show only no reserve auctions" and by default it can be Ticked (as per current behaviour).

It would be an easy way for us to being able to see both Reserve and No Reserve auctions selling TODAY only.

Currently, the only other way of seeing Reserve auctions is by going into All Auctions. But this is further diluted as it shows auctions finishing further into the future.

 

[Chris.C]

Could you also add a tickbox filter under the "Selling Today, All Auctions" radio boxes, saying something like "Show only no reserve auctions" and by default it can be Ticked (as per current behaviour).

It would be an easy way for us to being able to see both Reserve and No Reserve auctions selling TODAY only.

Currently, the only other way of seeing Reserve auctions is by going into All Auctions. But this is further diluted as it shows auctions finishing further into the future.

Agreed.

 

[johno69]

Currently, the only other way of seeing Reserve auctions is by going into All Auctions. But this is further diluted as it shows auctions finishing further into the future.

You can for now go to all auctions and sort by days left.

 

[Chris.C]

You can for now go to all auctions and sort by days left.

I've been doing that very suggestion and it annoys me every time. Not to mention that it then doesn't allow you to sort by anything else, ie if then first sort by days left, then highlight some favourites, then sort by favourites it once again orders things by price after your favourites have been listed regardless of the days left.

As Steve Krug would say when it comes to website design "Don't make me think".

 

[johno69]

I've been doing that very suggestion and it annoys me every time.

I understand it's annoying. Just offering up some ideas.

The new NF design, as someone previously mentioned, was not created by anyone that uses it for bidding.

 

[findtim]

if / else

simple questions of variable functions often require hourssssssssssss/ daysssssssss of programming , i'm sure netfleet have a long list of "todo's" , i agree some things are frustrating so perhaps netfleet could give us a timeline ( a roadmap) on past dnt member suggestions?

tim

 

[Chris.C]

i agree some things are frustrating so perhaps netfleet could give us a timeline ( a roadmap) on past dnt member suggestions?

+1

Maybe a stickied thread in the NetFleet section of your latest todo list?

 

[Oz.]

You can for now go to all auctions and sort by days left.

True, but think it would be better if it was easier to do.

 

[AnthonyP]

Hey guys thanks for the feedback.
I agree with many of these ideas and I am taking them on board.
Many of them are echoes of my initial misgivings but I am not in a rush to change anything just yet, as I am keen to give the current format a fair go.

I am very interested to see how we progress with no-reserve aftermarket auctions since they are being rewarded in the current format and are producing some strong results like
Liqueur.com.au ($7,801)
JervisBay.com.au ($3,588)
HousePlans.com.au ($3,223)
Bs.com.au ($2,345)
Rp.com.au ($1,889)
Balustrading.com.au ($1,601)

This is what the current auction was designed to do and is starting to deliver results along those lines.

As far as my TODO list is concerned, dntrade is always very high on the list as the squeaky wheel gets the oil. As always I love the feedback so keep it coming.

 

[Chris.C]

Many of them are echoes of my initial misgivings but I am not in a rush to change anything just yet, as I am keen to give the current format a fair go.

*tries not to cry*

Dntrade is always very high on the list as the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Note to self: squeak more often and louder...