davids
Top Contributor
I think his post is perfectly acceptable given that she wrote this:
If there's a failing with the platform, surely a user has the right to bring it up in a public forum.
Past experiences with Flippa
- Thread starter SAXIE
- Start date
I think his post is perfectly acceptable given that she wrote this:
If there's a failing with the platform, surely a user has the right to bring it up in a public forum.
neddy
Top Contributor
Totally agree.
payattention
Archived Member
He said the same thing, I was just direct about it in my response. I'm not sure how long he's been a moderator but that really says a lot when a new moderator chimes in with something unwarranted and only did so to white knight for the women and perhaps bait me into a response. No doubt he is now considering issuing a duel for the fair maiden.
Nothing I said in response to OLechat was even close to being unsuitable for the forum. findtim is an idiot and gave an idiot response, there is no 2 ways about it Chris.
Nothing I said in response to OLechat was even close to being unsuitable for the forum. findtim is an idiot and gave an idiot response, there is no 2 ways about it Chris.
neddy
Top Contributor
Even though I wasn't the member or moderator involved, I also totally agree. Your right to express opinions about Flippa are fine, but no need to get personal and tell someone publicly to "f off". Go for it in private if you want to.
findtim
Top Contributor
happily married thanks johnatan.
my statement was not against your right to publically state your view, it was that the member from flippa has given you an open invitation to consult with her and you haven't done that by her records.
if i had a problem and someone said that to me they would have an email in the next 5 minutes.
Just for the record calling me names or throwing sticks just makes me laugh and brings down your value to the community not mine.
you should note that none of your original comment has been moderated which proves the forum is an open platform but don't break the rules.
tim
my statement was not against your right to publically state your view, it was that the member from flippa has given you an open invitation to consult with her and you haven't done that by her records.
if i had a problem and someone said that to me they would have an email in the next 5 minutes.
Just for the record calling me names or throwing sticks just makes me laugh and brings down your value to the community not mine.
you should note that none of your original comment has been moderated which proves the forum is an open platform but don't break the rules.
tim
payattention
Archived Member
God help us if you're a moderator.
johno69
Top Contributor
At times it pays to proof read.
findtim
Top Contributor
i'm sorry BUT i have a GREAT excuse, my brother in laws name is johannes so i tend to put the "h" in !!
as ned says " old habits die hard"
now do i need to produce a birth certificate or will everyone just believe me ?
but jb if ya look'n for a fight u won't get 1, its friday arvo and i hav beta tings to do.
tim
as ned says " old habits die hard"
now do i need to produce a birth certificate or will everyone just believe me ?
but jb if ya look'n for a fight u won't get 1, its friday arvo and i hav beta tings to do.
tim
Have to say, I'm disappointed that what started as a question about Flippa quickly devolved into an issue about my gender and insults among forum members. I like chiming in on forums when I can have an actual conversation and be helpful, but I'm not sure either is happening now. And on a Friday afternoon, too!
Jonathan -- sure, let's talk about shill bidding. There's obviously an information imbalance, since I have admin privileges on the site and can see communications between users and user histories in order to identify shill bids.
When shill bidding occurs -- and it's a much rarer occurrence now than it was even a few weeks ago, when we introduced mandatory credit card verification for all bids over $200 -- and we have any way at all to trace it, that's indicated on the listing with a red "possible shill bidding" alert.
Now -- we're not mind readers. We have watch lists, and we observe user behaviour, but we can't be across all listings at all times. That's why we ask users to notify us if they notice anything, either by reporting the listing (on the main listing page, above the comments) or by emailing us at support@flippa.com
Why do you mention the Buy It Now price? That's simply the maximum amount a seller hopes to get for their site, and it's irrelevant to shill bidding. What matters in these cases is the reserve, which three of the listings you link to haven't even met.
In each case you've listed, you would probably deem the highest current bid a "shill bidder". So what happens when the listing ends at or above reserve and one of these accounts wins? The seller is out $29 for their antics, and their own sales rate goes down. That's it.
The rate at which shill bids bring a listing above the reserve, and a legitimate bidder ends up paying more for the auction than they would have otherwise, is very small.
Small incremental bids aren't unusual under a few hundred dollars. Unless you're saying that all low-end sites are run by shill bidders or, in your words, "criminals from the 3rd world", you have to accept that everyone wants to pay as little as possible for a piece of web property. For low-end auctions, that means placing $5 bids one at a time.
Does shill bidding happen on Flippa? Sometimes, yes. My point is that it has a small effect on our users, and that it's happening less and less often.
Once again, you have my email if you have specific issues about your own account. I'll be happy to take a look.
Jonathan -- sure, let's talk about shill bidding. There's obviously an information imbalance, since I have admin privileges on the site and can see communications between users and user histories in order to identify shill bids.
When shill bidding occurs -- and it's a much rarer occurrence now than it was even a few weeks ago, when we introduced mandatory credit card verification for all bids over $200 -- and we have any way at all to trace it, that's indicated on the listing with a red "possible shill bidding" alert.
Now -- we're not mind readers. We have watch lists, and we observe user behaviour, but we can't be across all listings at all times. That's why we ask users to notify us if they notice anything, either by reporting the listing (on the main listing page, above the comments) or by emailing us at support@flippa.com
Why do you mention the Buy It Now price? That's simply the maximum amount a seller hopes to get for their site, and it's irrelevant to shill bidding. What matters in these cases is the reserve, which three of the listings you link to haven't even met.
In each case you've listed, you would probably deem the highest current bid a "shill bidder". So what happens when the listing ends at or above reserve and one of these accounts wins? The seller is out $29 for their antics, and their own sales rate goes down. That's it.
The rate at which shill bids bring a listing above the reserve, and a legitimate bidder ends up paying more for the auction than they would have otherwise, is very small.
Small incremental bids aren't unusual under a few hundred dollars. Unless you're saying that all low-end sites are run by shill bidders or, in your words, "criminals from the 3rd world", you have to accept that everyone wants to pay as little as possible for a piece of web property. For low-end auctions, that means placing $5 bids one at a time.
Does shill bidding happen on Flippa? Sometimes, yes. My point is that it has a small effect on our users, and that it's happening less and less often.
Once again, you have my email if you have specific issues about your own account. I'll be happy to take a look.
payattention
Archived Member
I was never looking for a fight Tim, I was looking for a discussion with OLechat and anyone else that wanted to post on topic. You didn't bring anything to this thread other than to derail it.
It's not the first time you've got up in arms when someone tosses some hard questions to a woman. By her own admission, OLechat likes to get involved and discuss issues and doesn't look to have any problem defending herself. I'm sure she didn't need you to speak for her, it's 2012, not 1950 where you and your design to the web come from.
I hope you're happy that you managed to destroy what could've been an interesting and insightful thread. Judging by a few of the PM's I've received, I'm not the only one that feels your being a moderator is a poor decision for the forum.
On that note, I won't be posting anything further as it's pointless trying to have a discussion when a moderator (referring to findtim and what is to come in the weeks/months ahead) is waiting in the wings wielding their moderator status like it was their dick.
payattention
Archived Member
I'll give this one last bump as one of the top listings on Flippa is currently a fraud and illustrates my previous criticisms.
https://flippa.com/2814846-1-606-mo-autopilot-website-fully-outsourced-seo-web-business-for-sale
Re-listed due to non-paying bidder. Not true, it's re-listed as they didn't succeed in scamming anyone yet Flippa facilitate their 2nd attempt by giving them a free listing for a non-paying winner (scammer).
Lets just take a quick look at the obvious signs it's a scam which OLechat refuted. She did that because scamming is so rampant on Flippa that it's become the standard practice so they don't know any difference. A legitimate transaction would probably be flagged as a scam at this point as it'd be out of the ordinary.
This listing currently has 76 bids. I'd say 100% of the bids are shill bids. But even without the ability to prove this, the scammers are so lazy that they don't bother to cover their tracks because Flippa is so ineffective at detecting them. Remember, Flippa's fraud detection is there to protect THEM from fraud, not buyer or seller.
You don't even need to look at the auction itself, just the revenue proof.
Original - https://flippa.com/auctions/2814846/attachments/768623.png
I'll rehost the image just incase they delete the account and treat it as an outlier instead of the true standard of what Flippa has become.
Scammers are so lazy that they don't even bother to create the Paypal accounts. Try to send orders@seocoordinator.com and you get a response from Paypal that they don't have an account.
As previously mentioned, Flippa's fraud detection is there to protect them, not buyer/seller. What sort of sophisticated fraud system can't even detect that the #3 most active auction is a fucking scam? And that's just today.. Most days at least 50% of the listings on the most active are scams. That's why I'm saying Flippa need to be proactive on monitoring the listings and not just proactive in deflecting fraud accusations.
https://flippa.com/2814846-1-606-mo-autopilot-website-fully-outsourced-seo-web-business-for-sale
Re-listed due to non-paying bidder. Not true, it's re-listed as they didn't succeed in scamming anyone yet Flippa facilitate their 2nd attempt by giving them a free listing for a non-paying winner (scammer).
Lets just take a quick look at the obvious signs it's a scam which OLechat refuted. She did that because scamming is so rampant on Flippa that it's become the standard practice so they don't know any difference. A legitimate transaction would probably be flagged as a scam at this point as it'd be out of the ordinary.
This listing currently has 76 bids. I'd say 100% of the bids are shill bids. But even without the ability to prove this, the scammers are so lazy that they don't bother to cover their tracks because Flippa is so ineffective at detecting them. Remember, Flippa's fraud detection is there to protect THEM from fraud, not buyer or seller.
You don't even need to look at the auction itself, just the revenue proof.
Original - https://flippa.com/auctions/2814846/attachments/768623.png
I'll rehost the image just incase they delete the account and treat it as an outlier instead of the true standard of what Flippa has become.
Scammers are so lazy that they don't even bother to create the Paypal accounts. Try to send orders@seocoordinator.com and you get a response from Paypal that they don't have an account.
As previously mentioned, Flippa's fraud detection is there to protect them, not buyer/seller. What sort of sophisticated fraud system can't even detect that the #3 most active auction is a fucking scam? And that's just today.. Most days at least 50% of the listings on the most active are scams. That's why I'm saying Flippa need to be proactive on monitoring the listings and not just proactive in deflecting fraud accusations.
johno69
Top Contributor
The reply from the seller to snooks' question rings alarm bells for me. Snooks beware I say.
Thanks to JonathanB for getting in touch with me directly and emailing me the link to this update. Too bad it doesn't address any of the points I made in my previous reply.
Can I start with a simple request? Comments like this:
are out of line. I've been more than open in this thread and elsewhere online, we don't have a policy of deleting auctions, and I'd appreciate our discussion staying in good faith.
I can confirm that the previous auction ended because of a non-paying bidder -- a particularly problematic one who is well-known to Flippa staff and has now been permanently banned.
The listing has now ended with 107 bids. The seller had exchanges over messages with all approved bidders, and there is no indication of shill bidding on this listing.
You know, this PayPal screenshot issue looked strange, so I had a go at it myself.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/flippablog/Screen+Shot+2012-09-18+at+12.55.15+PM.png
https://s3.amazonaws.com/flippablog/Screen+Shot+2012-09-18+at+12.55.35+PM.png
Damn. It actually went through. Smallest expense claim ever. (Personal details blacked out to protect the innocent).
As always, yes, I'll point out that due diligence is the buyers' responsibility. I'm sorry if that's not the answer you're looking for, but that's, ultimately, what it boils down to.
Can I start with a simple request? Comments like this:
and
are out of line. I've been more than open in this thread and elsewhere online, we don't have a policy of deleting auctions, and I'd appreciate our discussion staying in good faith.
I can confirm that the previous auction ended because of a non-paying bidder -- a particularly problematic one who is well-known to Flippa staff and has now been permanently banned.
The listing has now ended with 107 bids. The seller had exchanges over messages with all approved bidders, and there is no indication of shill bidding on this listing.
You know, this PayPal screenshot issue looked strange, so I had a go at it myself.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/flippablog/Screen+Shot+2012-09-18+at+12.55.15+PM.png
https://s3.amazonaws.com/flippablog/Screen+Shot+2012-09-18+at+12.55.35+PM.png
Damn. It actually went through. Smallest expense claim ever. (Personal details blacked out to protect the innocent).
As always, yes, I'll point out that due diligence is the buyers' responsibility. I'm sorry if that's not the answer you're looking for, but that's, ultimately, what it boils down to.
Simon at EA
Member
As for payment methods, check out my company, Escrow Angel (escrowangel.com.au) - an Australian alternative to escrow.com. Disbursement to the Seller is quick and Buyer can pay by bank transfer or credit card. Escrow Angel fees are cheaper than escrow.com.
Cheers
Simon
escrowangel.com.au
payattention
Archived Member
I've already spoken with the buyer and they created the Paypal account after the domain had been transferred. Obviously this wasn't the case during the auction. This is why you can now send the address money but couldn't during the weekend. It doesn't take brains to figure that out yet it's obviously beyond you and Flippa. If you're suggesting that I doctored the image, what exact motivation would I have for doing that? I guess the seller had zero motivation and I have everything to gain by doing such a thing, right?
Just to be fair, I just jumped on new listings and what do you know.. more fake Paypal screenshots.
https://flippa.com/2819054-hot-social-marketing-reseller-site-established-no-exp-required
Original
Attempt to send them money.. oh look, no Paypal account. What's your excuse this time? Maybe you should spend the afternoon just checking all the new listings and see how rife the site is with scams and that what I said previously is not out of line but spot on.
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