Brandable Question/s

[Ash]

Hi all,

On the subject of brandable domains, what do you think about swapping letters in a name for other similar sounding ones. Example, 'K' instead of 'C' (Korn Flakes instead of Corn Flakes) or 'Z' instead of 'S' (Corn Flakez instead of Corn Flakes).

I know it flunks the radio test (although it is pretty easy to say 'Korn Flakes with a K'), but it does open up more opportunities for available domain names and branding opportunities (incidentally, I just learnt this is called 'sensational spelling' in advertising circles).

I am leaning towards it being OK if just one letter is swapped, but my judgement may be clouded because the .com name I want is only available as the 'sensational spelling' version.

To muddy the waters even more, the properly spelled name is available in .com.au.

What do you think about 'sensational spelling' in domains? (Spacey, I note your comment about only using a brandable with .com)

 

[snoopy]

What is the purpose behind the registration? Selling it, develop a site etc?

Overall I'd say this is a really bad strategy. It is what people do when they have no budget for a domain or they actually want something they can protect legally (so they'll make the misspelling well known). For domainers it is bad news in my view because it is probably going to end out a clunky name with no resale appeal. If you a developing it realise you are probably start with a liability and will have to dig a fair way to even get to ground level. The people who go down this path are not putting a lot of importance on the domain, that is fine but if you are a domainer and manage to choose a bad domain where does that leave your site??

Just to elaborate about what Spacey was saying. I would say some brand able names work well for domainers in .com, if multiple companies are actually using the name. So "Shoppa.com" would have some value in the .com space, it is actually a somewhat common business name. Whereas Shoppa.com.au isn't worth much because there is maybe one company with a similar name, so holding is unlikely to be profitable. Of course that is very different to the crap that many domainers think up themselves and call "brandable domains", terms that nobody else actually uses.

 

[Ash]

Thanks Snoopy - purpose is to develop a site.
Appreciate the reality check!

 

[findtim]

my rule of thumb is a "brand able" domain is FARRRRRRRR more expensive then and EMD in all respects.

and i know this from personal experience of trying to create a BRAND, it takes soooooo much more effort.

as many people have said before, a miss-spell just bleeds traffic, just do not go down that path.
[ i'm not writing this below for ash, just others reading this ]
save your money and buy BETTER domains is my advice.
think like this, what domain would you like to own ? THINK............ just name it to yourself
cars.com.au , homeloans.com.au ? now think to yourself.......... how do i get that ?
............ stop buying rubbish longtails on drops that you park and get no return on and start buying $xx,xxx domains........
tim

 

[snoopy]

............ stop buying rubbish longtails on drops that you park and get no return on and start buying $xx,xxx domains........
tim

There is barely any sales being reported at that level though. The top end for .com.au now looks to be low 5 figures. (e.g. bitcoin.com.au) so how many names really fit into your criteria?

Top sales 2015

mailman.com.au 16,500 USD 2015-02-08 DomainNameSales
stocks.com.au 13,728 USD 2015-05-10 NetFleet.com.au
firstchoice.com.au 12,908 USD 2015-01-28 NetFleet
stockbroker.com.au 11,088 USD 2015-05-10 NetFleet.com.au
wedo.com.au 11,000 USD 2015-02-08 DomainNameSales
taxreturn.com.au 9,572 USD 2015-04-19 NetFleet.com.au
computer.com.au 8,504 USD 2015-01-18 NetFleet
moneytalk.com.au 5,950 USD 2015-02-08 DomainNameSales

 

[findtim]

reported at that level though

thats the key sentence, "reported"

tim

 

[Data Glasses]

Hi all,

On the subject of brandable domains, what do you think about swapping letters in a name for other similar sounding ones. Example, 'K' instead of 'C' (Korn Flakes instead of Corn Flakes) or 'Z' instead of 'S' (Corn Flakez instead of Corn Flakes).

I know it flunks the radio test (although it is pretty easy to say 'Korn Flakes with a K'), but it does open up more opportunities for available domain names and branding opportunities (incidentally, I just learnt this is called 'sensational spelling' in advertising circles).

I am leaning towards it being OK if just one letter is swapped, but my judgement may be clouded because the .com name I want is only available as the 'sensational spelling' version.

To muddy the waters even more, the properly spelled name is available in .com.au.

What do you think about 'sensational spelling' in domains? (Spacey, I note your comment about only using a brandable with .com)

The reason I say a .com for brandables is that the resale market does exist, you have the whole world of start-ups seeking an branding identity. If you limit the brandable to a cctld you limit your resale opportunities. I have always said try to get both .com and .com.au if you are developing, cover your bases. I do believe that many brandables in the .com space get be acquired for cheap! You just need to reach out to the seller who may be holding too many in this genre and will happily jump at the chance to get a sale, even if only small. I was offered $500 for a .com brandable over the weekend. It was listed for $999 at Namerific and is due to expire in 2weeks. I happily agreed to the "half price offer" Many domainers jumped on the brandables market last year and it is officially flooded, some cheapies to be had for sure. I believe the best brandable has an element of subject matter incorporated into the name. Example i have prepayo and it's pretty easy to figure out what it means. The best brandable will pass the radio test and be in .com
~
One Aussie brandable I considered regging for a while was fixy.com.au as I felt it could be used in many fields. These days it is doing nothing, probably waiting for " big repair firm" to come to the party. I even looked at 2wo.com.au as a dating site style name. As tim says you will need deep pockets to get the message across. If you cant hear it and then type in the name in the full knowledge of what to expect to me, as a brandable it is not working.

 

[Cooper Mills DomainLawyer]

There is barely any sales being reported at that level though. The top end for .com.au now looks to be low 5 figures. (e.g. bitcoin.com.au) so how many names really fit into your criteria?

Top sales 2015

mailman.com.au 16,500 USD 2015-02-08 DomainNameSales
stocks.com.au 13,728 USD 2015-05-10 NetFleet.com.au
firstchoice.com.au 12,908 USD 2015-01-28 NetFleet
stockbroker.com.au 11,088 USD 2015-05-10 NetFleet.com.au
wedo.com.au 11,000 USD 2015-02-08 DomainNameSales
taxreturn.com.au 9,572 USD 2015-04-19 NetFleet.com.au
computer.com.au 8,504 USD 2015-01-18 NetFleet
moneytalk.com.au 5,950 USD 2015-02-08 DomainNameSales

The issue is that all of the $xxx,xxx sales that I see are all subject to confidentiality so no one can talk about them, but believe me there are several $xxx,xxx sales that I have been involved in for clients this year in the .com.au market, but you are right when you say 'reported' sales!

 

[findtim]

many people seem to base the market on what happens on drops, as erhan points out is there is a lot of other stuff happening that never gets a mention.
tim

 

[Horshack]

The issue is that all of the $xxx,xxx sales that I see are all subject to confidentiality so no one can talk about them, but believe me there are several $xxx,xxx sales that I have been involved in for clients this year in the .com.au market, but you are right when you say 'reported' sales!

Unfortunately, like most people, I'm a believe it when I see it person. Regardless of confidentiality some information generally finds its way into the public domain eventually.

 

[Cooper Mills DomainLawyer]

Unfortunately, like most people, I'm a believe it when I see it person. Regardless of confidentiality some information generally finds its way into the public domain eventually.

I think you will be waiting for a while. Typically the larger sales that I see involve businesses that are tight on confidentiality, that is why this information doesn't get out. There was a recent sale of a domain that was contained in the annual report of a listed company, that is an example of a very large sale that was reported, which is the exception to the rule. I see these sales so I can tell you first hand they are real, I often handle the escrow of funds.
In terms of sellers what personal benefit is there in telling everyone about your $xxx,xxx sales.

 

[findtim]

In terms of sellers what personal benefit is there in telling everyone about your $xxx,xxx sales.

i think its after @ 6 beers at the dnt xmas party LOL
tim

 

[snoopy]

The best indication of any part of domaining is simply what get's reported. When the highest sales reported are $15,000 etc that is not a strong market. The undisclosed argument gets pulled out on every extension with bad figures but if the market was strong there would be a lot more domains getting reported and and expired prices would not have literally "dropped" like they have.

 

[snoopy]

In terms of sellers what personal benefit is there in telling everyone about your $xxx,xxx sales.

Ego, that is the main reason why people voluntarily report sales.

 

[Horshack]

I think you will be waiting for a while. Typically the larger sales that I see involve businesses that are tight on confidentiality, that is why this information doesn't get out. There was a recent sale of a domain that was contained in the annual report of a listed company, that is an example of a very large sale that was reported, which is the exception to the rule. I see these sales so I can tell you first hand they are real, I often handle the escrow of funds.
In terms of sellers what personal benefit is there in telling everyone about your $xxx,xxx sales.

From what I have seen the big name domain holders usually hold more than just one valuable name so i would think that it's in their interest to see big sales data in the public domain as we see on dnjournal to maximise the value of any future sales. It's amazing how a report on a big sale creates an instant goldrush scenario in associated names. What better way to make all domain names more valuable. Would it be fair to say that in many cases the sales that you are talking about are not just for a domain name but are full business sales where the domain name is included as a business asset?

 

[snoopy]

Isn't it normally the buyer who wants the confidentiality? From what I have seen the big name domain holders usually hold more than just one valuable name so i would think that it's in their interest to see big sales data in the public domain as we see on dnjournal to maximise the value of any future sales. It's amazing how a report on a big sale creates an instant goldrush scenario in associated names. What better way to make all domain names more valuable. Would it be fair to say that in many cases the sales that you are talking about are not just for a domain name but are full business sales where the domain name is included as a business asset?

I think this is a factor, but there is also people who won't want to alert others to a valuable area, will want to try to keep prices lower etc. It all washes out in my view, some will want to report others won't. Might also depend on how much they are buying.

 

[Cooper Mills DomainLawyer]

Would it be fair to say that in many cases the sales that you are talking about are not just for a domain name but are full business sales where the domain name is included as a business asset?

Very good question, but almost all of the ones I handle are domain only. Out there in the wild, you are right that there are some that are sold as part of the business, I am not referring to these when I talk about sales.

 

[findtim]

often its cheaper to buy the domain business already setup, programmed, rankings, "the look" , this is an area i work in.
"buy,build, sell"
but back to the point, im dev not dom and i'll have you know i do not publish everything i do and sell so why should everything be "reported" , the "state of the market" is what you personally make it be, if you chose and are happy selling handreg's for $500 then go for it, if you got the best in the world and sell for a million then go for it.
the market isn't depressed.
one of my clients just sold out of his bricks and mortar and told me that because i advised him/got him THE great domain name 6 years ago it REALLY helped with the sale. so there are many facets to what is perceived to be the market.

the buying of his business really saw value in that he had secured the domain, OK, it probably meant very little in the long run to the money he got from the business but i will say.......... from a salesmans point of view......... the less hurdles you have the easier the sale.
and its only going to get better, if you are a sydney dentist and 62 yrs old and you own sydneydentist.com.au instead of fredsmithdentist.com.au then you have far more chance of moving forward on a sale because there is no RE-BRANDING to be done when tim connell dentist buys the business.
and thats what happened for my client example above, and thats worth money.
tim

 

[Ash]

The .com I wanted includes the word 'cards' in it's name but it was taken so I was considering 'kards'.
'kards' doesn't look like a great option though - greetingkards.com and birthdaykards.com are still available for hand reg.

.net and every other gTLD is available with 'cards' for the name that I want (it's just for a fun idea I have that I could sell as a product - I'm looking to develop it not hold as a domainer). Are any of the other gTLDs worth considering - or should I just come up with a new .com name?

 

[TrafficSauce]

The .com I wanted includes the word 'cards' in it's name but it was taken so I was considering 'kards'. 'kards' doesn't look like a great option though - greetingkards.com and birthdaykards.com are still available for hand reg.

Unless the "K" version is an intrinsic part of your idea/angle/brand, it may not be the best compromise - since both the example .com's are still available, it doesn't bode well.

.net and every other gTLD is available with 'cards' for the name that I want (it's just for a fun idea I have that I could sell as a product - I'm looking to develop it not hold as a domainer). Are any of the other gTLDs worth considering - or should I just come up with a new .com name?

If it's an idea you are going to develop, a great domain will help but, ultimately, success or failure will be more dependent on your idea itself - better to start with something than never start only due to the (perceived) best domain being unavailable.

Nothing wrong with .net's but they always seem a little anticlimactic unless it's an area that fits naturally with the .net space... and I wonder how many people will still remember it as .com.

If any of the new gTLD's fit with your brand idea, go for it. Some of them are catchy/clever branding gold. Even a .co might be a good compromise or some other ccTLD hack. While it is an important part, I would try to not get too bogged down in 'domainer' paralysis - either stump up the bucks or come up with a clever/best alternative and keep your idea moving.