Should We Be Getting The Bidding Started On Flippa Auctions?

[Chris.C]

So today I noticed that there are a few decent AU domains going up for auction on Flippa:

cardiologists.com.au
mobilemassage.com.au
acupuncturists.com.au

I think they've been up for a few days now, yet no one has bid on them...

I'm not sure if people think they're poor domains, but I'd value them at least $XXX (what's everyone else think?).

The reserve on them probably scares most domainers off from bidding, but at the same time to see domains like this not even get a few bids I think reflects bad on the whole AU domain industry...

Now I'm not sure if this domain owner has done much marketing of these auctions, but it wouldn't help to have end users come to an auction page and see no bids (that doesn't build confidence to encourage them to bid)...

And whilst my domain buying these days is focused on a select few niches - I still look at domains like this and think I'd be a happy owner of these if it was only going to cost me COR and a few dollars from a low ball bid.

But would my low ball bid on this auction for the sake of getting the bidding started, with no real expectation of winning, be construed as shill bidding? @Alex Lunnon (Flippa.com)

And if this isn't classed as "shill bidding" then as AU domainers don't we all have an vested interest in seeing domains like these sell well?

Wouldn't we all like it if a domain worth $1000 being sold at auction was quickly meet with 3 or 4 bids from domainers pushing the price to $50 - $100 to help our efforts in marketing these domains to end users?

I know it's a bit annoying to invest time bidding at auctions when we are unlikely to win, but doesn't a rising tide lift all of our boats?

Thoughts?

 

[snoopy]

This sounds exactly like shill bidding to me.

The reserve on them probably scares most domainers off from bidding, but at the same time to see domains like this not even get a few bids I think reflects bad on the whole AU domain industry...

And how will it reflect on the industry when people hear the bids are fake bids by others in the industry to try and make things look better? Reminds me a bit of .tv.

 

[snoopy]

Just on the particular names, where the value in names like this is the post 2012 era?

mobilemassage.com.au maybe, I can see some people would want to use it, but we are probably talking buyers with very small budget i.e. the buyers are businesses with 1-2 staff. I think it will be very hard to make money speculating in a name like that where the budgets are going to be low.

The other two I don't really know what the business model would be in todays market.

 

[Data Glasses]

Reminds me a bit of .tv.

....wtf ?

 

[Chris.C]

This sounds exactly like shill bidding to me. And how will it reflect on the industry when people hear the bids are fake bids by others in the industry to try and make things look better?

To clarify, I'm not implying bidding on domains that we aren't willing to own.

I'm suggesting bidding on domains we are not likely to win at auction.

Ie, if as a domainer I'm confident that an enduser would be willing to pay $750 for mobilemassage.com.au then acquiring if for $75 would be a good deal.

My assumption is that most people putting their domains up for sale on Flippa are also marketing those domains to end users who should be willing to pay substantially more than a domainer at an auction, which means I'm unlikely to win.

My point was more about, even though I know I'm unlikely to win, getting the bidding started so that end users don't feel like they are taking a leap of faith by being the first person to bid.

But of course if I was to win an auction with a bid that I thought was 10% of the domain's value to an enduser I'd obviously be a happy winner.

Thoughts?

 

[snoopy]

Thoughts?

Thought are it sounds like shill bidding, because you are bidding to try and coax other buyers to bid.

 

[snoopy]

....wtf ?

https://www.namepros.com/threads/england-tv-sold-for-50k.511589/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/england-tv-ends-in-drop-disapointment.623145/

 

[findtim]

i've got to agree with snoopy and its values he has stuck by since i joined dnt, and that is shill bidding is BAD, your domain is only worth what someone will pay for it, and of course his "check your tax return"
you should only bid if you wish to purchase.
i'm not commenting on the names, just the technique of selling, being the son of an HONEST real estate agent father i have always felt playing by the rules is always best, YES, you can bend them but that is just strategy like bluffing in a poker game.
cheating is not acceptable IMO

tim

 

[Chris.C]

cheating is not acceptable IMO

So the question then is at what point are your bids only for the sake of "cheating"?

If you are willing to own the domain at the price you bid is that not being "honest"?

And why is someone who bids $25 to own mobilemassage.com.au a shill bidder?

Why aren't they just a tight ass or someone who isn't in a position to fully utilise the retail value of the domain?

I'm actually really surprised by the answers thus far. By the above logic, no one should bid unless they are "certain" they are going to win the auction or pay close to retail price, which to me makes no sense.

You'll notice in my first post I was only referencing "decent" domains - I'd never support bidding on domains that you wouldn't at least be willing to pay the COR fee plus minimum bid to have in your own portfolio.

 

[snoopy]

Why aren't they just a tight ass or someone who isn't in a position to fully utilise the retail value of the domain?

They are are not "just a tight ass", they are in your own words bids "for the sake of getting the bidding started, with no real expectation of winning".

Now if your question instead was "look guys, I'm a tight ass, if I bid $50 on sex.com.au am I shill bidder", the answer would have been "no, that isn't shill bidding"

Here is an entry from wikipedia which I think sums it up,

Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids, they seek to provoke a bidding war among other participants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

 

[Cooper Mills DomainLawyer]

on the first issue, I agree with Snoopy bidding on domains you dont intend to buy is shill bidding. A few people shill bidding does NOT improve prices for the industry (it is likely to do damage to the industry), this brings me to my next point.

The real issue is that Flippa has a lot more sellers than buyers, over time this is likely to change, but at the moment you are not likely to get decent money on .au domains by listing them on Flippa, there are exceptions. Also the buyers that are on Flippa are not the buyers you typically want as a Vendor (as they arent end users in most cases). Please don't see this as an attack on Flippa because its not, just my observations at this time, in fact Flippa has a lot of things going for it

 

[findtim]

i can't give you the EXACT figures, but today was a GREAT example, a domain got picked up on drop dot com au for something stupid like $18 and didn't get caught by NF with a bid of @ $500+
so thats not shill biding in one sense as it got purchased BUTTTTTT it could be considered that as by placing a bid + a 2nd bid it bought the domain to the top of drop and bought it to the attention of others, NOW we know its a drop and not a flippa but the technique is the same, i hope you are all still with me on this ?
there is potential for people to bump up prices via different means.
there are MOUNTAINS of past threads on dnt about this so this is just rehashing the old IMO
as for bids, it gets back to "intent" so a $25 bid is not a shill as long as the person is truly hoping to grab a bargain, how do we know? we just don't

Flippa has a lot more sellers than buyers, over time this is likely to change

i can't see that ever happening, especially given the new extensionssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
flippa and the like will continue to succeed , its whether you succeed from your purchases on flippa that is the question.
i said before " ones mans rubbish is another mans new rubbish "

tim

 

[Chris.C]

I agree with Snoopy bidding on domains you dont intend to buy is shill bidding.

Thank your Erhan for better summarising than I was able.

And I'd like to clear up, I'm NOT suggesting people should bid if they have no "intent" to buy.

My point was people shouldn't not bid just because they don't "expect" to win.

For me this is like the whole NetFleet AMA saga all over again. Unless you can get two end users rocking up to an auction, the prices achieved at auction are always going to be horrific next to negotiated sales...

...and unfortunately as Erhan has mentioned Flippa just doesn't have as many eyes actively watching it as other platforms nor the in house marketing to hustle up interest (I'm you get the vibe they are working hard behind the scenes to improve this).

So without two end users (which is sometimes difficult to achieve even with marketing), it's up to us as domainers and obvious buyers of domains to "make the auction"... and no I'm not saying shill bid, I'm saying bid with intent, but most important we should simply bid whenever we see something we like.

Best case scenario, we get ourselves a bargain (which is harder to do than it is on NetFleet). Worst case scenario you help a fellow domainer achieve a price that is closer what might have been achievable via a negotiated sale.

 

[findtim]

Best case scenario, we get ourselves a bargain (which is harder to do than it is on NetFleet). Worst case scenario you help a fellow domainer achieve a price that is closer what might have been achievable via a negotiated sale.

your post was great until this last paragraph where i feel you totally contradicted yourself " you help a fellow........." , thats shill bidding IMO
tim

 

[snoopy]

Regarding Flippa's prices a domain is never likely to get an "enduser" price via any auction. The chance of getting two very motivated endusers at the same time bidding on the same platform is very low. The only way to get enduser price is to wait (and hope). You could try you luck contacting people but it is still unlikely that anyone is going to get a highly motivated buyer that way. All those auctions are wholesale environments.

 

[Data Glasses]

https://www.namepros.com/threads/england-tv-sold-for-50k.511589/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/england-tv-ends-in-drop-disapointment.623145/

Not sure what the reference to shill bidding from my quick glance at the threads?
~
As you always say .......one sale does not make a trend

 

[snoopy]

Not sure what the reference to shill bidding from my quick glance at the threads?
~
As you always say .......one sale does not make a trend

It is an example of fabricated offers and sales. Happened a lot in extensions like .tv in my view and other alt tlds (e.g. the $1million beauty.cc sale), also happened a bit for second rate .com's. That .tv example was a rare occasion where the curtain was pulled up on the practice for all to see.

.com.au doesn't need nonsense like that where people feel the need to try and boost the extension with fake offers. Things aren't that bad in the .com.au space.

 

[Data Glasses]

The law of averages says there will always be something underhanded going on, seems crazy to ask if we should start bidding on names ...... you either want it or you do not