Aftermarket Auctions open for business

[Honan]

Great job Mark
May I suggest that you amend
"What is the cost for buyers?

There is no cost to participate in the Domain Aftermarket Auctions. The only cost payable is the amount you bid, if you win the auction. "

and add "The Buyer pays the registrar of their choice a COR fee ( change of registrant Fee )"

 

[Mark]

No, the fairest way would have been to send out a dozen emails to the people suggesting/waiting for the service to give them first go.

Ok fair enough, we probably should have done that. I guess we didn't think people would mind waiting 7 days until the next auction if the first had sold out. We also didn't anticipate the first auction to sell out so quickly.

What is the current auction?

This was a beta run of the aftermarket auctions we held in August, and long since closed. We didn't want to make available to all , so just made available to all people on dntrade:

http://www.dntrade.com.au/netfleet-aftermarket-auction-now-accepting-t1634.html

Also a suggestion, it would be good to be able to be able to add (and see) a brief on each domain such as how old, aged, does it have a website, PR, G Rank, etc.

Yes it would, and it is something we are thinking about. It is great to see metrics (from a buyer perspective), and it would definitey boost activity on certain domains, but conversely could have detrimental effect on others. Considering people have paid for the service, we have to be very careful how we market the domains, and be very careful not to appear to favour some domains over others. Still undecided on this one though its a good point

In terms of the fees, the commission % structure acts against good domains - I imagine you do the same amount of work for a domain that sells for $100 as you do for a domain that sells for $100,000. Why $8 v's $8000? Doesn't seem fair for premium domains. I'd love to be wrong on this, please correct me if so.

Do you mean why do we charge 8% commission over a flat rate? If we go down a flat rate route, its very hard to determine what that flat rate should be, without pricing out the lesser valued domains, and generating enough revenue to make the aftermarket auctions cost effective to run. 8% is a pretty low commission compared to many auction houses - Rick Latona's charge 20% for example.

Nothing is cast in stone forever of course, we will undoubtably mould the fees/commission structure over time

Great job Mark
May I suggest that you amend
"What is the cost for buyers?

There is no cost to participate in the Domain Aftermarket Auctions. The only cost payable is the amount you bid, if you win the auction. "

and add "The Buyer pays the registrar of their choice a COR fee ( change of registrant Fee )"

Nice spot Joe, thanks for that. Now updated!

Cheers
Mark

 

[Chris.C]

What do you think? Will it work? Or do you think it's unreasonable to charge an upfront fee like this for domains with reserves?

My vote would just be for a listing fee, PLUS flat fee to have the PRIVILEGE to be able set your own reserve rather than be PENALISED for wanting to protect your assets.

I'm a big fan of the KISS model of business. Just make it something semi significant like $20 - $50 or something.

Plus I think you want to be careful not to scare away those with quality premium domains that genuinely want to sell.

For example say someone has a domain which they think is worth $7000 and they put their reserve as $6000. And bidding gets up to $5000. This wasn't an unrealistic reserve, and $7000 may not be an unrealistic "market price" on its day and with a reserve of $6000 they are a genuine seller, yet they are now $240 out of pocket because they had a quality domain.

Of course I appreciate this would likely be the rare case, but I don't doubt there would be a number of domain owners who might hesitate to list their domains for sale because they will be "penalised" for doing so. Which seems counter initiative to net fleets objective of getting as many quality domains up for sale as possible and achieving high prices to get high commissions.

But that's just my two cents.

Only 9 spots left for the first auction. Better be quick!

Will there be scope in the future for either increasing the number for sale, or probably more preferably increasing the number of days a week the domains go up for sale? Or do you think this is just a first auction rush?

Can I ask how week two is looking? Booked out yet?

PropertySale.com.au on for the 12th October.

Should be worth a watch.

Does anyone know when will the list of domains up for sale on the 5th come out?

I'm kind of excited...

We also didn't anticipate the first auction to sell out so quickly.

I imagine there are a lot of people holding domains that they won't have time to develop and they are looking to off load them without all the hassle of going through a search, educate, negotiate and sales process.

If the first auction is a success, I imagine there will be even a bigger wave of potential sellers.

Yes it would, and it is something we are thinking about. It is great to see metrics (from a buyer perspective), and it would definitey boost activity on certain domains, but conversely could have detrimental effect on others.

I'm a big fan of seeing the metrics next to the domain as well. I can't count the number of times when I have been watching a drop auction where I would have looked off a domain by name alone only to see the metrics of it which peaked my interest to do some quick research only to find that it was a domain I should be interested in.

And the end of the day more buyers is always a good thing at an auction.

its very hard to determine what that flat rate should be, without pricing out the lesser valued domains, and generating enough revenue to make the aftermarket auctions cost effective to run.

So don't price them out. Just price out those that don't have domains worth having a reserve above $100.

As I mentioned above, a $5 listing fee, plus a $20 fee to set your own reserve is reasonable. That way someone who is only expecting to get $250 won't lose much sleep over the fact their reserve is automatically set to $100 and someone with a name they want to sell for $1000+ won't lose much sleep over having to shell out an extra $20 to ensure they don't sell a domain they'd prefer to keep rather than sell if the auction fails (in their eyes).

8% is a pretty low commission compared to many auction houses - Rick Latona's charge 20% for example.

Nothing is cast in stone forever of course, we will undoubtably mould the fees/commission structure over time

8% seems reasonable, but nothing "moulds" prices like competition aye... looks at drop?

 

[Rhythm]

Regarding the following:

A Non Paying Bidder (NPB) is deemed to be so, if the buyer has not paid the seller in full, within 6 weeks from the close of auction.

Am I the only one in thinking 6 weeks is too long?

And are there to be any consequences for Non-Paying Bidders ?

One more question,

Will there be a way to 'push' domains to auction from within the classifieds sections? (Without having to manually delete + re-enter them). not terribly important but convenient.

Can I ask how week two is looking? Booked out yet?

19 places left. (Availability can be observed when submitting domains.)

 

[DavidL]

Hi Chris,

I hope people don't feel we're 'penalising' them for wanting to protect their assets with a reserve. It's definitely in the best interests of the auction, the market and the buyers to have low reserves.

I also believe it's in the best interests of the sellers in most cases but as sellers we sometimes need a bit of an incentive to take the plunge and the proportional fee is meant to do that (or rather be a disincentive to have a high reserve)

However I do take your point about the higher priced domains. We do have a cap at $200 (ie for reserve fees over $5,000) but maybe we can look at adjusting this in light of what you say.

In answer to you q's:

I think we'll probably assess frequency and volumes of domains at auction once the rush dies down. I think longterm 50/week would probably be enough but of course we'll see.

Week 2 has 19 spots left. Week 3 about 25 and week 4 has 40 spots left.

The list of domains for the 5th Oct is already up - http://www.netfleet.com.au/index.php?a=auctions

Let's all hope that these auctions are a success - if they are it gives everyone an option to dispose of domains and hopefully realise some gains....

PS if anyone is considering listing domains but would like to see traffic details before they do, please PM me

 

[Chris.C]

Am I the only one in thinking 6 weeks is too long?

No. I think it's too long too. If you can't pay, don't play.

I hope people don't feel we're 'penalising' them for wanting to protect their assets with a reserve. It's definitely in the best interests of the auction, the market and the buyers to have low reserves.

But the seller can't predict what is going to happen on the day. So it doesn't matter if they are "reasonable" or not because the market is often "irrational".

Anyway - it just seems strand that the premium domain owners are the ones that really suffer. When junk holders will happily through there stuff up there to see if anyone bites with the benefit of knowing it's $5 buy in and and $100 minimum return.

Plus if you get big premium sales on netfleet you will win over domainer eyeballs and bring people to your site as well. I know I'm not the only one who enjoys watching a 4 or 5 figure domains drop at auction and will watch it until the end even if I'm not in it.

I'm just saying it could be simpler, easier, and fairer - but play out the penalty percentage thing, see how it goes.

I also believe it's in the best interests of the sellers in most cases but as sellers we sometimes need a bit of an incentive to take the plunge and the proportional fee is meant to do that (or rather be a disincentive to have a high reserve).

There may well be premium domain sellers that still opt for $100 reserve regardless of their domain being say $1000+ if they are really forced to sell.

On the flip side, someone with that same domain might like to put in a $500 just so they aren't selling it for chips, in which case they'd pay $20 the privileged whether it sells or not. So netfleet would grab additional commission because of the sellers insecurities.

Just saying...

The list of domains for the 5th Oct is already up - http://www.netfleet.com.au/index.php?a=auctions

Is there any chance that you guys will be integrating a drop style system of having the Google search volumes and CPC so we could scan them quickly?

I went through most of them manually... I reckon 50% of them will struggle to reach the $100 minimum.

Let's all hope that these auctions are a success - if they are it gives everyone an option to dispose of domains and hopefully realise some gains....

Definitely.

Can I ask though - how does AUDA look at this? This definitely makes "flipping" domains a lot easier and will be at the front of a lot more domain investors minds.

 

[DavidL]

Am I the only one in thinking 6 weeks is too long?

1 week is too long in my opinion. However I am constantly amazed how long it can take genuine buyers to get their act together (for example they might not have an ABN and have to run around to hustle one up, or they want to shop around to find the best transfer fee etc).

If it's obvious they are a NPB earlier (say if they just ignore all contact or state they will not be going ahead) then we can take action earlier too

And are there to be any consequences for Non-Paying Bidders ?

We're quite prepared to ban them from Netfleet but not too sure what else we can do? Open to ideas because non paying buyers (and non completing sellers for that matter) ruin it for everyone. Case by case basis though.

Will there be a way to 'push' domains to auction from within the classifieds sections? (Without having to manually delete + re-enter them). not terribly important but convenient.

Absolutely - a la Sedo. This will be a great feature.

Related to that we'll be emailing anyone who's ever made an offer on the domains we have lined up for auction in the marketplace to let them know about the auctions.

but play out the penalty percentage thing, see how it goes..

Please stop calling it a penalty No one would call Ebay's fee indexing a penalty!

At the end of the day we're just trying to get domains listed that will sell. The manual method (ie you submit your domains to be accepted or rejected) has it's problems as it relies on a subjective judgement.

As you say, we'll see how it goes and if it's not working, we'll change it, don't you worry!

Is there any chance that you guys will be integrating a drop style system of having the Google search volumes and CPC so we could scan them quickly?

Yes we will but we want to be a little bit careful with getting the data right. There has been a lot of discussion about varying metrics so we want to be confident before we do.

Can I ask though - how does AUDA look at this? This definitely makes "flipping" domains a lot easier and will be at the front of a lot more domain investors minds.

auDA will be quite happy with this. As long as the domains have been registered for 6 months +, selling through auction is fine.

 

[Rhythm]

Time sure seems to slow down when you're waiting for an auction to start/finish

 

[Chris.C]

I don't know what the deal is, but I just saw wholesaledvds.com.au listed to go up for auction on Oct 5th on NetFleet. Yet it seemed that wholesaledvds.com.au was also up for auction today in the expiry auctions...

https://www.drop.com.au/auction/?room=prior

???

Am I missing something? or has that bloke just listed a domain that he no longer owns?

 

[Drop.com.au]

I don't know what the deal is, but I just saw wholesaledvds.com.au listed to go up for auction on Oct 5th on NetFleet. Yet it seemed that wholesaledvds.com.au was also up for auction today in the expiry auctions...

https://www.drop.com.au/auction/?room=prior

???

Am I missing something? or has that bloke just listed a domain that he no longer owns?

I would imagine that this is an oversight by the original owner. This domain was caught at Drop.com.au on 2010-09-30 and would be ineligible for sale.


Andrew

 

[Timmy]

I see redroses.com.au sold for $1500 yesterday on Drop and actually had a target price on Netfleet of $200... (And still is available apparently - I might have a crack at it haha)

http://www.netfleet.com.au/index.php?a=d&id=56985

 

[DavidL]

Nice spot Tim.

Evidence that not all Netfleet listings are unrealistic!

 

[Nova]

Ok, so the netfleet aftermarket auction finishes in < 2 hours. Not one bid yet - is it:

a) going to be a mad rush at 3:59pm?
b) going to be a flop as the domains are no good?
c) nobody knows about it?

 

[Rhythm]

Auction starts today at 1600.

So I guess the answer is:

d) None of the above.

 

[Nova]

Auction starts today at 1600.

d) Nova is a tool


From NetFleet - "We run our Domain Aftermarket Auctions every week, starting on Tuesdays and finishing the following Tuesday."

The current list has been up there for a while now - so this auction starts today and finishes next Tuesday?

 

[DavidL]

Yeah sorry about the long wait. Mark has actually been away on leave (back today) and we didn't want to start the auction while he was away hence the long lead time until the first auction.

But yes we're good to go for 4pm! Please don't hold back anybody with your bidding. Remember an active aftermarket is good for all of us so let's get this first one off with a bang!

 

[TroyW]

Hello lads, might be worth considering promoting the upcoming domain auctions on the current auction? This way, people that log in this week get a sneak preview of what's going through next week and are more likely to return and spread the word. Create a vibe, word of mouth. You know what the domains are coming up, seems a waste not to be promoting them.

 

[DavidL]

hmmm - yes I see what you mean. Trouble is it might detract from the current auction - people might hold off on bidding because they are saving their money for something they have their eye on the following week (which they may end up not winning anyway and end up with no domain at all)

However appreciate the suggestion & will give it some thought. You're dead right that we need to leverage every advantage we have to make it work to optimum performance.

 

[Chris.C]

hmmm - yes I see what you mean. Trouble is it might detract from the current auction - people might hold off on bidding because they are saving their money for something they have their eye on the following week (which they may end up not winning anyway and end up with no domain at all)

I'd look at it as the opposite and being another opportunity to get in contact with people and another opportunity to also mention the current auction in between plugging next weeks.

Also I wouldn't be too worried about people not bidding if they like the look of future domains coming up for auction. Whilst I can't speak for everyone, I know I personally whether I bid or not is based on whether the domain holds underlying value more so than whether it'll fit into this weeks budget.

 

[TroyW]

Traditionally, I buy in categories such as accommodation, etc. If I look at this week's offerings there's not much there so I might not come back. If I could see that in 2 weeks there was one I wanted, I would prepare for it - perhaps raise some extra $$$ for the auction through friends/partners, etc.