Don't You Hate It When...

[Chris.C]

OK so I thought I'd cheer everyone's morning up by telling a story about my stupidity...

So last night I received an offer on the domain RoseHipOil.com.au - so I did my normal domain evaluation and plugged in Rose Hip Oil into the Google keyword tool and looked up the metrics, which were [720] exacts and "1900" phrase with a CPC around $0.75...

So by my valuation methods I valued it around the $350 - $650 for a retail buyer.

Anyway the first offer was around $100, countered with $1250, they replied with $250, and I start to think "well at least they aren't a $100 max bid, tyre kicker and the idea of $1250 counter offer didn't scare them off" so I countered with $1100, they come back with $350 and I'm like "nice they are in the price range and I've still got room to move - this is going to sell" then they follow this offer up with a Q&A saying they can't afford $1100 their budget is $500 and can they please meet them closer to that figure and then they offer $500.

So then I respond with something to the effect of "I appreciate your situation but I also can't afford to sell domains too cheaply because I plan to develop it myself in time if a buyer who is willing to pay more doesn't come along first" then I send through a counter offer of $850 and check the box saying it is my "final offer" knowing full well that I have an offer of $500 which I think is a fair price and I have 7 days to accept it and they seem very eager to buy it so I can afford to wait 5 or 6 days to see if they accept my offer of $850 before I start counter offering again.



Anyway I wake up this morning and the deal has been accepted so I'm like sweet, feeling pretty good about myself thinking that that price quite a bit better than what I would have considered retail value!



So I'm writing the congratulations email, and explaining the transfer process when I look at the domain name and I say to myself RoseHipOil.com.au that's a bit of a funny product spelling isn't it, then it dawns on me maybe the way most people spell it isn't "Rose Hip Oil" rather they spell it as "Rosehip Oil"...

I jump on the Google keyword tool and plug in "Rosehip Oil" and what do you know - "8100" phrase and [2400] exacts...



I plug in the new numbers and my valuation for a retail buyer comes to $2000 to $5000...

... and I just sold it for $850.

FAIL

Don't you hate it when you go from acting smug to being a mug.

 

[FirstPageResults]

LOL, good story Chris.

You won't be doing that again anytime soon!

 

[BenWalker]

Damn!!!

Was it a hand reg?

 

[Chris.C]

You won't be doing that again anytime soon!

You'd think so, but I have done it before as well!



I also do it in reverse when bidding on expiry auctions. You look at a domain quickly and can't work out why it's getting bids then the auction finishes it gets my attention so I do some more research only you realise some smart cookies have worked out it was misspelled and if I had of known the real search volumes before the end of the auction I would have bought the domain for way more than what it sold for!

Was it a hand reg?

Yeah. So it could be worse.

 

[DavidL]

Great story! Naturally you will reneg on the deal

However just to make it worse - it's still an exact match for the misspelling too. So really you need to add both search numbers to get 10,000 phrase and 3,120 exacts... sorry

 

[AlexBailey]

I feel horrible for smiling during this, but it is really a great story.
And definitely a lesson for all, thanks for sharing.
Should definitely get a biggest blunders thread going, haha.

So really you need to add both search numbers to get 10,000 phrase and 3,120 exacts... sorry

Classic.

 

[Chris.C]

Great story! Naturally you will reneg on the deal

Nah I wouldn't reneg - it was my stupidity not his - that said the story has just had a MASSIVE new twist.

So I shot of the congrats emails, transfer process outline email, and a requests his ABN so I can send through the invoice etc, then later this morning I get the response "I don't actually have an ABN" at which point I'm like, well that is kind of required mate, I don't know how you planned to own the domain without it. To which he was like, yeah don't worry I'll get it sorted.

And to which I'm like... OK whatever... please do that ASAP and let me know when it's done.

Anyway, I'm trying to forgot about the whole saga and just get on with my day when about an hour ago I get another Q&A blowing up at me saying why did you not respond to my last Q & A and why did you sell the domain for $850...

And I'm like what's this all about, when I realised, oh crap, there was more than one bidder. So I send him a message back saying dude I'm really sorry, but I have already sold it. I thought I was only dealing with one buyer and the other buyer was willing to pay my asking price of $850 so the deal was done.

Then he responds, well I've been in the business for 15 years and please don't sell it to this bloke who doesn't even have an ABN, I'm willing to pay $1500.

Anyway we end up chatting on the phone and he explains what happened to me and I have to keep telling him look mate I've done the deal with this other bloke I'm really sorry it's an integrity issue not a money issue, and he keeps saying man, you need to speak with him and need to make it happen, I'm willing to pay twice what he's offering - he doesn't even have an ABN - he wasn't even eligible to bid without an ABN!

Anyway in the end I'm like I'm real sorry, I sincerely hope for your sake this guy doesn't organise his ABN, but I don't know what else I can do.

of course we hang up and I'm like - just when you thought things were bad...

Talk about tough day at the office.

Now I'm sitting here hoping this other bloke doesn't sort out his ABN so I can just sell it to this other bloke.

So what would you guys do if you were in my shoes...

My thinking is I give this bloke a couple of days to sort the ABN or I move onto the greener pastures. Thoughts?

Man I wish the NetFleet Q&A system mentioned the name of the people asking the questions - I didn't realise I was talking to two different people!

Also shouldn't it be mandatory to submit a ABN or ACN to be able to bid on NetFleet.

The real moral of the story... don't do domain deals, counter bidding and answering Q&As late at night in between watching Games of Thrones...

However just to make it worse - it's still an exact match for the misspelling too. So really you need to add both search numbers to get 10,000 phrase and 3,120 exacts... sorry

You always know just what to say to brighten my day David!

I feel horrible for smiling during this, but it is really a great story.

That's why I posted it. I figured I could cry about it or laugh about it - at the end of the day it's not the end of the world - so figured we may as all have a good laugh.

Should definitely get a biggest blunders thread going, haha.

I started one a couple of years back - I'll have to find it... I featured back then as well... that said, individual stories are funny... the continuing trend of my stupidity I'm not finding as funny...

 

[snoopy]

That is life I guess. Personally have made dozens of domain mistakes, as long as you get it right more often than wrong.

 

[neddy]

Now I'm sitting here hoping this other bloke doesn't sort out his ABN so I can just sell it to this other bloke.

So what would you guys do if you were in my shoes...

My thinking is I give this bloke a couple of days to sort the ABN or I move onto the greener pastures. Thoughts?

As Snoopy says, we all make mistakes some times. And I'm sure a lot of us have had situations like this Chris.

But I think they do even out if karma has its way.

With regards this bloke, I think you're doing the right thing honouring your deal with him (even though you know you have a better deal in the background).

But imho you do need to give him a deadline to settle. I do that on just about all my invoices these days - it serves multiple purposes. If he doesn't pay by that deadline,
then I think you'd be entitled to cancel and sell to someone else. (He may not have his ABN by then, but there is nothing to stop him paying in the interim). That shows good faith.

I had a situation a couple of months ago where I sold a domain to an enduser who was rather arrogant in his attitude and negotiating style. I gave him a deadline on his invoice,
and he dicked me around for a further few days after the due date. He was an aggressive prick.

In the meantime, another person had made me a better offer. So when buyer 1 didn't pay by the revised deadline, I cancelled with him and did the deal with buyer 2.

Buyer 1 threatened me with all sorts, and then paid the money belatedly. I told him in no uncertain terms that he had repudiated our agreement, and I asked for his account details so I could refund money.

After a bit more bluster, it was all done and dusted, and buyer 2 and I were extra happy. Karma.

Never heard from buyer 1 again.

 

[geodomains]

Hey Chris,
This will make you laugh, I sold a domain on NF for the price I was asking, sent the invoice to the buyer and he paid it straight away.

So next port of call was getting password to transfer the domain, low and behold I don't own it anymore, WTF, how could I forget I sold it 12 months ago privately.

So I contact buyer offering to give refund and all sorry for mixup, he's okay about and says have you got any other domains similar.

Well I don't actually, but do some browsing for what is available to hand reg and find one that is close to what he might want.

Hand register it and he's happy to buy for same price, true story.

Don

 

[neddy]

low and behold I don't own it anymore, WTF, how could I forget I sold it 12 months ago privately.

You've done that a few times Don. You need to get that dementia seen to.

 

[Ashman]

Great story and interesting turn of events Chris. I'm always learning something new on this forum. I agree with Neddy. Give him a strict deadline to pay otherwise go with buyer 2. It is after all a business deal. By the way, how do you value your domains? Is there some type of formula you use?

 

[Scott.L]

LOL, you not alone making mistakes on valuation via keyword tool - I entered a keyword into the keyword tool and inadvertently selected Austria after I sold the domain name I realized the actual LMS for Australia was 100 times higher;

 

[DavidL]

I did a similar thing to you, Don - forgot I sold a site and continued to pay an SEO company to build links to it for 6 months. They hadn't changed the NS so the site was still resolving and I was getting monthly ranking reports and all that stuff. It was only when I was trying to change hosting, I realised it was long gone...

 

[Chris.C]

But imho you do need to give him a deadline to settle. I do that on just about all my invoices these days - it serves multiple purposes. If he doesn't pay by that deadline,
then I think you'd be entitled to cancel and sell to someone else. (He may not have his ABN by then, but there is nothing to stop him paying in the interim). That shows good faith.

Can you invoice a bloke that doesn't have an ABN nor is registered for GST?

I gave him a deadline on his invoice,
and he dicked me around for a further few days after the due date.

How many days is a fair period of time to give someone?

Hey Chris, This will make you laugh

That didn't make me laugh as much as it made me jealous... love the hustle though.

By the way, how do you value your domains? Is there some type of formula you use?

LOL that's a very forward question. The answer to the second question is there is a rough formula I use - but it's locked it a heavily guarded safe.



In all seriousness, I do have a formula for valuing domains, but it's doesn't really contain any real secrets more it is just the culmination of a few insights as a result of blunders over time, these days it's becoming more of a "routine" I go through before I buy any domains, but at the same time I'm very hesitant to give it out exactly because it would mean people would know what I'm going to pay at auctions, because the reality is I'll buy and develop anything which means most of my bidding and acquisitions are very much maths based (I do manipulate the numbers from time to time when I think Google isn't reflecting inherit value but most of the time I just do the math and that screens out about 95% of the junk then it's a case of making some value judgements about the domain then determining a price you value it at then not changing that price at the auction given that if you are a true domainer your not just buying domains and waiting for a buyer to come along, you are buying undervalued domains which you know have or will have value to the retail market and you want to maximise your return so overpaying in the beginning destroys your ROI)...

The moral of the story is bluntly asking for formulas or methods is like going up to a girl in the street and asking her to sleep with you right there on the spot... you have got to be way more subtle than that, you got to work up to that, you start with small questions like "so do you have a formula or something?" then you got to stroke their egos and be friendly and say something like "wow that's really cool you got a formula, that's very smart, what made you think of creating a formula?" then you move on to questions whose answers derive value "so what do you reckon is something most people don't factor for when buying a domain?" that question's answer doesn't force the domainer to divulge everything but it's answer is still valuable, then you move into a more friendly discussion next thing you know you are asking the domainer out for a friendly beer and to shoot the breeze, then you liquor them up and ask more of the "valuable answer questions without getting them to divulge everything" which opens segways to other "valuable answer questions" and then before you know it you have pretty much their whole picture which in picking up chicks terms would be "their pants fall off"...



And that is how you pick up a domainer...

 

[DavidL]

Can you invoice a bloke that doesn't have an ABN nor is registered for GST?..

Yeah I guess so. You can invoice whatever you want, he can pay whoeever he wants the question just ends up being whether he will get a GST credit for his payment.... I think!

Anyway point is, get the cash, any which way, to prove commitment. If he huffs and puffs and makes excuses then you do have the right to reassess the sale.

 

[neddy]

Can you invoice a bloke that doesn't have an ABN nor is registered for GST?



How many days is a fair period of time to give someone?

The main thing you want is to get paid. If there is a problem with an ABN, I don't see why you can't issue an interim invoice and revise later - or just get him to pay and issue him invoice when ABN comes through.

As for how many days, I generally allow 2 working days to pay. That doesn't mean you have to enforce it - it just means you can if you need to.

The moral of the story is bluntly asking for formulas or methods is like going up to a girl in the street and asking her to sleep with you right there on the spot... you have got to be way more subtle than that, you got to work up to that, you start with small questions

Not if she is a hooker.