WebSiteDesigns3D - will sites like this be in demand ?

[DavidL]

Firstly who is going to search for "website designs 3d"? How is it a logical search query?

As per my post - they idly search 'website designs' then think - 'actually i want a 3d one' and then add the '3d'. Humans aren't always 'logical'

Secondly with the photographers example you'll have a website with a confusing domain name. ie one that sounds like a search query not a web address. Who is going to buy it?

I wasn't talking about resale - I was talking about SEO and choosing a domain based on search volumes & competitiveness.

Some stats,

Exact match searches,

sydney photographers - 590 searches monthly
photographer sydney - 1000 searches monthly

sydneyphotographers.com.au - Taken
photographersydney.com.au - Available

Thanks for the fantastic example. Perfect! If you're looking to develop a website you can either:

a) purchase sydneyphotographers.com.au for $1,000 or whatever the seller wants. Then bust a gut to seo it in a competitive market to attract a lousy 600 searchers or:

b) hand reg photographerssydney.com.au, seo it in a less competitive space for nearly double the potential visitors.

That's my point re value in 'backwards domains' (although I agree entirely wrt resale - it would no doubt be harder)

Some names will be forever worthless so matter how popular the niche becomes. The domain market generally is not kind when poorly researched choices are made, it isn't like some other markets where you can make a bad choice and still make money (eg property).

Property? I lost money on my last place & I think I made a good choice! Fact is you can lose or win in any investment market but if the overall market is increasing (in domain terms this means, amongst other things, increasing number of domains registered) you can do OK even with average choices.

How many 3d names have you sold?

I sold one

 

[WG2010]

3DDomainNames, I don't think we're naysayers. shags38 opened the topic for discussion and that's exactly what we're having.

Anyway..

.. the naysayers?.. not too much we can with them.. they are too far gone, have enough anger and ire towards the '3d' field that it will be near impossible to persuade them either way... that's fine though .. everyone has the right to their own opinion

.. i'm just not a fan of the trolls that stick their heads in form time to time and call us stupid for even considering a 3d name.

I don't think anyone here is getting upset or angry over the fact you are a fan of 3D domains. I personally wish you and shags38 the best of luck with them. No-one here has called either of you idiots or is trolling.

Hell, I even bought one myself a while back purely based on what I think people might type into Google should it take off (MoviesIn3D.com.au).

Like I said before, you just have to look at the consumer trends regarding the purchase of 3d tv's and it's pretty dismal. I would hazard a guess that it's a big indicator of the 3d niche in general.

 

[3dDomainNames]

3DDomainNames, I don't think we're naysayers. shags38 opened the topic for discussion and that's exactly what we're having.

Anyway..



I don't think anyone here is getting upset or angry over the fact you are a fan of 3D domains. I personally wish you and shags38 the best of luck with them. No-one here has called either of you idiots or is trolling.

Hell, I even bought one myself a while back purely based on what I think people might type into Google should it take off (MoviesIn3D.com.au).

Like I said before, you just have to look at the consumer trends regarding the purchase of 3d tv's and it's pretty dismal. I would hazard a guess that it's a big indicator of the 3d niche in general.

Hello WorGeneral

.. i'm sorry if you misunderstood me ..
.. i never said that anybody here was a naysayer.
.. i was just trying to help outline the argument a bit, which i am very well aware of from dealing with it for so long.

- - - - -
3d in the front or in the back seems to depend on the name or the term...
but before throwing this name under the bus (websitedesigns3d), consider that espn put their 3d in the back, as did avatar, and piranha, or the recent sale of TRAVEL3D/com for over $4,000 suggests this is a preference, one centered around marketing and 'dramatic appeal'.

eg:
Vacations 3d
or
3d Vacations

as for SEO purposes, if your website is optimized according to your name, you have all original content and update regularly, whether 3d in front or back, you will still be granted priority.

3d In front seems best with more than word
... 3d in the back seems to fit very nice with one word

nJoy

 

[snoopy]

3d in the front or in the back seems to depend on the name or the term...
but before throwing this name under the bus (websitedesigns3d), consider that espn put their 3d in the back, as did avatar, and piranha, or the recent sale of TRAVEL3D/com for over $4,000 suggests this is a preference, one centered around marketing and 'dramatic appeal'.

eg:
Vacations 3d
or
3d Vacations

as for SEO purposes, if your website is optimized according to your name, you have all original content and update regularly, whether 3d in front or back, you will still be granted priority.

3d In front seems best with more than word
... 3d in the back seems to fit very nice with one word

nJoy

The argument isn't whether 3d should be put at the back of a domain name, the argument is whether the "website designs 3d" makes sense as domain name.

brandname+[3d].com is going to work a lot of the time.

Even ignoring the 3d for a minute and the placement of it, what is a site including the term "website designs" about? To me it sounds like a site selling templates because an actual web designer would logically use "website design" in the domain. It is a very mixed up sounding domain to me. It isn't something that flows like travel3d.com or moviename3d.com.

 

[3dDomainNames]

ok .. so it sounds like you don't like the 's' more than anything, yes?
that 's' can be a real killer sometimes, can't it? (haha)
i do agree with you - it does sound like a template site or a 'showcase' site.

would you like it better if it was 'WebSiteDesign3d'?, 'cause that doesn't so bad at all

the one problem you may find with 'websitedesigns3d' is that it's really NOT ideal for someone who makes websites and a would-be end user will most likely look for a much better fit before shelling out for this.
...HOWEVER... if that IS the case... and this name DOES fit better as a 3d site that features 3d web site templates... then all that changes is the targeted end-user from a 3d web developer to a 3d template business.

is that so bad?
BOTH big business...
.. and both are going to be VERY MUCH in demand.

 

[snoopy]

As per my post - they idly search 'website designs' then think - 'actually i want a 3d one' and then add the '3d'. Humans aren't always 'logical'

That sounds like a stretch to me. This isn't like someone searching for a product then adding a geo location.

I wasn't talking about resale - I was talking about SEO and choosing a domain based on search volumes & competitiveness.

So what would you say is the logical chain of events here given you aren't talking about resale,

1. Photographer sees illogical sounding domain name is available after doing availablility scans on different terms.

2. Thinks "H'mm that doesn't sound right but that could be a good search term".

3. Photographer starts doing keyword research on name, realises it is.

4. Photographer already has his own site but pulls out Macromedia Dreamweaver and starts coding minisite. He already has a hosting reseller account.

5. Photographer sets up mini site to try and traps some of those 33 searches per day. (1000 month).

or perhaps this......

1. Domainer see illogical sounding domain names is available.

2. Domainer sees search stats and thinks "Whoa I could have some of those 33 searches per day".

3. Domainer sets up name and puts up minisite. He has spent all afternoon on the content and it is great.

"Welcome to photographers Sydney, this site is all about photographers sydney". Photographers involves a man with a camera in Sydney. You can find out all about photographers sydney on this site".

4. He builds links from his other minisites and after a year it ranks no.10 in Google Australia, he gets one click through per day out of 33 searches. His minisite has a 3% ctr and he earns 50 cents per click.

5. At the end of 12 months domainer takes his check for $9.25 (1 X 0.03 X 365 X .50) to the bank, a just reward for all that research and effort.

Thanks for the fantastic example. Perfect! If you're looking to develop a website you can either:

a) purchase sydneyphotographers.com.au for $1,000 or whatever the seller wants. Then bust a gut to seo it in a competitive market to attract a lousy 600 searchers or:

b) hand reg photographerssydney.com.au, seo it in a less competitive space for nearly double the potential visitors.

That's my point re value in 'backwards domains' (although I agree entirely wrt resale - it would no doubt be harder)

I don't see how buying either is going to make sense for a domainer in term of trying to develop.

Property? I lost money on my last place & I think I made a good choice! Fact is you can lose or win in any investment market but if the overall market is increasing (in domain terms this means, amongst other things, increasing number of domains registered) you can do OK even with average choices.

I sold one

I said people "can make a bad choice and still make money" in property, the keyword being *can*, I'm not saying they always will make money. Domains are not the same, if poor choices are made it is almost always going to be a loss, the rising tide does not lift all boats in domains.

There are people who registered names a decade ago that would still be worthless today, the vast majority of registrations in fact. Doesn't matter if you get the area right, if the name is illogical, clumsy or with not very desirable terms it is unlikely to ever be worth anything.

 

[snoopy]

ok .. so it sounds like you don't like the 's' more than anything, yes?
that 's' can be a real killer sometimes, can't it? (haha)
i do agree with you - it does sound like a template site or a 'showcase' site.

would you like it better if it was 'WebSiteDesign3d'?, 'cause that doesn't so bad at all

the one problem you may find with 'websitedesigns3d' is that it's really NOT ideal for someone who makes websites and a would-be end user will most likely look for a much better fit before shelling out for this.
...HOWEVER... if that IS the case... and this name DOES fit better as a 3d site that features 3d web site templates...

It is really a combination of a whole lot of things,

-the s
-the placement of 3d not really fitting
-the fact that it is a completely unproven area

How many strikes does it need before it is obviously not a very good name? Or should we argue to death with what ifs how the 3d might work at the back in some certain circumstance, how the "s" could work if you were selling templates and how it could also work if 3d sites took off?

then all that changes is the targeted end-user from a 3d web developer to a 3d template business.

All of a sudden though you are in a much smaller market where most people want the product for free.

 

[DavidL]

That sounds like a stretch to me. This isn't like someone searching for a product then adding a geo location.

It's not that dissimilar if you think about it. It also might be a second unique search. Eg user searches 'website designs', scans over the results and realises they are all related to 2D websites so tacks on a '3d' in his Google search box.

Trust me, it happens all the time.

Another example of a 'backwards' domain. "jobsearchaustralia.com.au" . Not really very brandable (the brandable equivalent would be "AustralianJobSearch.com.au") but it has 22,000 exacts. What do you think that's worth? (BTW free plug for the owner it's for sale on Netfleet )

http://www.netfleet.com.au/index.php?a=d&id=32179

So what would you say is the logical chain of events here given you aren't talking about resale,

1. Photographer sees illogical sounding domain name is available after doing availablility scans on different terms.

2. Thinks "H'mm that doesn't sound right but that could be a good search term".

3. Photographer starts doing keyword research on name, realises it is.

4. Photographer already has his own site but pulls out Macromedia Dreamweaver and starts coding minisite. He already has a hosting reseller account.

5. Photographer sets up mini site to try and traps some of those 33 searches per day. (1000 month).

or perhaps this......

1. Domainer see illogical sounding domain names is available.

2. Domainer sees search stats and thinks "Whoa I could have some of those 33 searches per day".

3. Domainer sets up name and puts up minisite. He has spent all afternoon on the content and it is great.

"Welcome to photographers Sydney, this site is all about photographers sydney". Photographers involves a man with a camera in Sydney. You can find out all about photographers sydney on this site".

4. He builds links from his other minisites and after a year it ranks no.10 in Google Australia, he gets one click through per day out of 33 searches. His minisite has a 3% ctr and he earns 50 cents per click.

5. At the end of 12 months domainer takes his check for $9.25 (1 X 0.03 X 365 X .50) to the bank, a just reward for all that research and effort.

I'm not sure what you mean? I'm not suggesting any chain of events. I wouldn't like to comment on individual's motivations and thought processes. All I'm saying is that 'backwards' domains like these can have value especially from an SEO POV.

Also that photographerssydney.com.au was just an example. I'm not saying the search volume justifies the expense of development - I didn't even check the volumes before I posted.

But your calculations have some validity. However you underplay the power of an exact match domain. Getting to anything less than number 1 would be a failure. The better example is a search term with 5,000 exacts, where you hit number 1 and get 2,000 visits/month. That's where it stacks up from an ROI perspective.

Will websitedesigns3d.com.au hit this mark some day? That's the question.

I said people "can make a bad choice and still make money" in property, the keyword being *can*, I'm not saying they always will make money.

I'm sorry if that's what you meant (and I don't think you did - rather you are being disingenuous!) then it's a completely pointless thing to say. Of course anyone *can* make money in any industry!!

Domains are not the same, if poor choices are made it is almost always going to be a loss, the rising tide does not lift all boats in domains.

So this doesn't apply with domains? Are you saying that this sentence is incorrect?

...people "can make a bad choice and still make money" in domains, the keyword being *can*, I'm not saying they always will make money.

There are people who registered names a decade ago that would still be worthless today, the vast majority of registrations in fact. Doesn't matter if you get the area right, if the name is illogical, clumsy or with not very desirable terms it is unlikely to ever be worth anything.

Agreed.

 

[snoopy]

Another example of a 'backwards' domain. "jobsearchaustralia.com.au" . Not really very brandable (the brandable equivalent would be "AustralianJobSearch.com.au") but it has 22,000 exacts. What do you think that's worth? (BTW free plug for the owner it's for sale on Netfleet )

I think that is probably because of jobsearch.gov.au as opposed to it being a natural search term. To compare,

"job search usa" 1600 searches
"job search america" 260 searches
"job search new zealand" 880 searches

I'm not sure what you mean? I'm not suggesting any chain of events. I wouldn't like to comment on individual's motivations and thought processes. All I'm saying is that 'backwards' domains like these can have value especially from an SEO POV.

I simply asked under what circumstances your example could be used profitably for SEO. I don't see it myself because the search volume is too low ans it seems you see it that way now aswell.

But your calculations have some validity. However you underplay the power of an exact match domain. Getting to anything less than number 1 would be a failure. The better example is a search term with 5,000 exacts, where you hit number 1 and get 2,000 visits/month. That's where it stacks up from an ROI perspective.

How often do you see a domainer get to no.1 with a domain of that popularity (5000 searches a month) with a minisite? Especially with a term of commercial significance like something related to hiring a photographer. Have you done it yourself? have you seen others do it?

Will websitedesigns3d.com.au hit this mark some day? That's the question.

Does it matter? The term itself isn't likely to be popular to start with, so its an empty prize to get to no.1

I'm sorry if that's what you meant (and I don't think you did - rather you are being disingenuous!) then it's a completely pointless thing to say. Of course anyone *can* make money in any industry!!

I'm not sure I follow this. I'm saying people can make bad choices in property and still make money. Time often can "cure" the mistake because the person is at least buying something of value even if they overpaid. It doesn't work like that with investing in reg fee domains. The worthless names generally stay worthless.

So this doesn't apply with domains? Are you saying that this sentence is incorrect?

Yes it doesn't apply. Most of the domains registered aren't worth anything. Waiting 5-10 years won't change that for the vast majority.

 

[shags38]

Hi all,

I've been otherwise occupied over the past couple of days and have only just picked up again on this thread.

As expected in a group of more than one person there are different opions, viewpoints, ways of looking at things and the individuals interpretation - the latter is generally the the main issue and particularly with the written word. The first (arguably) and biggest selling book is testament (pun intended) to that (how many religions have spawned from different interpretations of the very same words ??

The English language is one of the most complex of all languages with more occurrences of the same word having more than one meaning than any other, and so many words with the same meaning. And so when dealing with people (not SEC's) we invariably get people (now tagged as searchers) using different words, different spelling of the same (?) word, different terms or phrases or a group or string of words that to some make no logical nor grammatical sense. That is absolutely apalling to some and ignored by others. Tom8o or Tomarto?

The direction of the thread has veered slightly from the original intention however not off the map. The whole 3D issue has a divided audience - the believers and the non believers, and very few fencesitters.

I have been bemused by some comments so far and very enlightened by others.

The great thing is, as per the old saying, "nobody kicks a dead dog" - so if we are discussing it as energetically as we are then 3D is certainly alive and well at present, its life expectancy is yet to be determined.

I encourage everyone to try to think beyond the square on the different aspects of 3D "marketing". I find not only in this domain forum but in other similar forums that much of the discussion is very insular in that it is coming so decidedly from a domainers perspective.

Of course you may say, what a dumb statement. Not really - what is a domainer?

Now there is a challenge - can each of you describe your interpretation of a DOMAINER - and what a domainer does, what you do - what makes a domainer a good domainer, what qualifies a person who dabbles in creating, buying and selling a few domain names as then being a "domainer". What influence does a domainer have on internet marketing, period? or should the question be what influence does marketing have on a domainer?

The answers / comments will be as diverse as the comments and opinions in here so far. What does that say?

I will be back with more (ramblings) after this short commecial break from our sponsors

 

[shags38]

some comments have again made me smile. 3D at the front, back ........ Nobody yet has touched the middle ......... I have names with 3D in the middle that surprisingly enough are generating as many inquiries as other names. Names like cable3dmovies.com, prepaid3dcellphones.com, rent3dmovies.com.au and so on. LOL - are the keywords wrong way around??

Referring to my previous post, the interpretation of the arrangement of the words when a group of words, a string of words (which we tend to call a sentence or phrase - and the difference between a sentence and a phrase is ??) or more than one word is used in a domain name is individual. Who determines what is correct and what isn't?

Me, as an individual, I prefer websitedesigns3d as a selling effective name over
3dwebsitedesigns. Which is more grammatically correct? neither. I used the term "selling effective" - websitedesigns.com or .com.au have significant current exact traffic - and that will continue with 3D. People are creatures of habit - many (many = qualified as enough to be commercially valuable traffic) will continue to search for dvd players, televisions, cameras, movies, games etc etc and THEN TACK 3D ON THE END - human nature - and when 3D is the standard and is no longer special the 3D will be dropped in many searches. So longer term I would rather own cameras3d, websitedesigns3d, movies3d than the other way around (both is better ).

Again, yes I am but a newbie to domaining, I call myself a domainer because I don't have a real job and a "Domainer" sounds cool and often gets the response "what is a domainer" - BINGO!!! - open invitation to spruke the technically advanced nature of a business that in reality is trading, buying and selling sprinkled with a dash of creativity by some, not unlike buying selling tomatoes (or cars, or TV's) except that domain names are intangible and are only worth something IF someone else has a need for it, or in the case of a domainer, a perception that maybe someone maybe one day maybe will maybe have a need for it. I have a need for a tomato because I cannot make a tomato sandwich, who has a "need" presently for 3D domain names - not many at all, not many. Who will have a need for a 3D domain name when (when = confident definitive statement 3D becomes big - many.

I will if I may refer to Joes short definitive post "lets, cust to the chase - who in this forum would buy one or more of Mikes 3D names?". I know what Joe was getting at however it makes me smile. As I have mentioned before I am a newbie, and newbies have to learn to crawl before they walk right, newbies will invariably waste many, many hours doing things that become exactly that, a waste of time, energy and resources. What does that have to do with Joes question? Try this .... "in this forum" ... transfer that to ....... on this site, meaning Sedo, Afternick, Netfleet (free plug) ....... who buys names on these sites? I have spent mega hours not just listing some 1800 plus names on a bunch of sites (listing is the easy part) but even more mega gazillions of hours writing wonderful descriptions for each. And therein lies the waste (not so much the listing) ....... who aside from other domainers visit these sites? certainly not end user customers unless of course they try to register a name, find out it is registered and then instead of doing a whois they scour these sites (such people do not have any money otherwise they would have engaged the services of a webdesigner to find the owner of the name for them and/or an alternative name) - and of the 15million plus visitors to Afternic per month for example (which includes all their affiliates), a site which boasts some 3million listed names - of that 15million I figure there are 27 actual end user customers legitemately looking for a name to buy. The rest are those that have their domains listed that are checking on stats or editing their descriptions.

So how many of that 27 are looking for a 3D name - none I'm afraid.

So, given that it is other domainers in here, and who visit these for sale sites, and given that the majority of those people have no real faith in 3D names then I have little, ney, no expectation of selling any of my 3D names to anyone other than an actual end user who has a need. The big time domain investors scour the listings daily, they have seen the 3D names, they don't want them ................. yet

So Joe, the fact that nobody in here wants to buy them has little or no bearing on the value of the names Just like the logical sequence of the keywords in websitedesigns3d is wrong .... right snoopy?

I do apologise for being somewhat introverted in this thread - I will make an effort in future to say what is on my mind (.... .... you have prior warning, LOL)

cheers, Mike

p.s. I have at this point forgotten what I started with in this post and am not sure if I stayed on track or got derailed - I do not have the time to review what I wrote so it is what it is ........ CLICK
p.p.s. ... I have to stop being so happy apparently - I used 7 smileys in this post and the limit is 4 images so I had to review this post afterall to eliminate 3 smileys (I hated doing that to those happy icons), and in reviewing this post albeit very briefly it became obvious to me that it contains MSG ..... Much Silly Grap (a G is really a curly C)

 

[shags38]

p.p.p.s. .... as I am an honest person I should say this - referring to the opening sentence in my previous post regarding the number of inquiries ...... they are indeed the same, fair dinkum ......... zero

 

[shags38]

if I do not leave soon I will miss the snapper auction ......... bye