The comparison with the UK system and rights to .co.uk holders has been done to death but it wasn't comparable to our situation because they didn't have an equivalent of our .net.au.
.AU Direct Registration Forums, Syd, Mel, Bris
- Thread starter snoopy
- Start date
The comparison with the UK system and rights to .co.uk holders has been done to death but it wasn't comparable to our situation because they didn't have an equivalent of our .net.au.
I was looking back through some of the submissions in NZ that were published on the .NZ Domain Names Commission website. They had exactly the same arguments as we are having 
. The one below is a great example:
AdNet.co.nz Ltd
Received 19 December 2016
.co.nz owners should have first right to the .nz equivalent.
.co.nz is the .com of the nz domain space and the data clearly shows this in the number of registrations vs any other suffix with 480,000 registrations. The next most popular are .net.nz and .org.nz which have around 25,000 registrations. Most of these are conflicts with .co.nz registrations because they were likely registered as an alternative to the .co.nz which was already taken.
.co.nz domains have nearly 20x the number of registrations, but are worth 100x the next value domain suffix .net.nz. Any advertised domain is 99%+ of the time, a .co.nz.
There would be very few cases where any other domain suffix of a particular name was registered before the .co.nz version. If this has occurred, it is usually due to an ownership transfer where the registration date may have been reset.
Other suffixes such as .geek.nz were not even launched until at least a decade after .co.nz, and were really a way for the DNC to generate more revenue that wasn't successful, not to advance the value of the nz domain space. With a total of only 1,000 .geek registrations (1 in 480 .co.nz), the fact that these were even put on par in line with .co.nz owners for .nz, is incredibly inappropriate especially given how strange it was for the DNC to launch these as an actual viable suffix in the first place.
. The one below is a great example:AdNet.co.nz Ltd
Received 19 December 2016
.co.nz owners should have first right to the .nz equivalent.
.co.nz is the .com of the nz domain space and the data clearly shows this in the number of registrations vs any other suffix with 480,000 registrations. The next most popular are .net.nz and .org.nz which have around 25,000 registrations. Most of these are conflicts with .co.nz registrations because they were likely registered as an alternative to the .co.nz which was already taken.
.co.nz domains have nearly 20x the number of registrations, but are worth 100x the next value domain suffix .net.nz. Any advertised domain is 99%+ of the time, a .co.nz.
There would be very few cases where any other domain suffix of a particular name was registered before the .co.nz version. If this has occurred, it is usually due to an ownership transfer where the registration date may have been reset.
Other suffixes such as .geek.nz were not even launched until at least a decade after .co.nz, and were really a way for the DNC to generate more revenue that wasn't successful, not to advance the value of the nz domain space. With a total of only 1,000 .geek registrations (1 in 480 .co.nz), the fact that these were even put on par in line with .co.nz owners for .nz, is incredibly inappropriate especially given how strange it was for the DNC to launch these as an actual viable suffix in the first place.
findtim
Top Contributor
Once again putting submissions into the prp is important, and now you have gone to the meetings and /or heard of the comments you can form your own opinions for your submissions.
as a director of auda i have to stay out of it publicly but personally many / MOST of the phone calls i have received recently ask about 2 different items, and they are " dubbodentist.com.au theory" and " realestate.com.au theory "
tim
as a director of auda i have to stay out of it publicly but personally many / MOST of the phone calls i have received recently ask about 2 different items, and they are " dubbodentist.com.au theory" and " realestate.com.au theory "
tim
snoopy
Top Contributor
They have .net.uk but it is restricted to ISP's, they have whole lot of other ones, .me.uk, ltd.uk, plc.uk etc,
DomainNames
Top Contributor
"John Swinson noted that it was open to the Panel to tell the auDA Board that, as a practical matter, direct registration could not be implemented." Policy Review Panel 2017 minutes
If the Panel does not tell the auDA Board this they have failed in their duties, obligations and I think they will lose a lot of respect.
Some on the Panel have been questioned how their own submissions clearly have facts against .au registrations yet here they where seemingly peddling it around the country... which they denied..then said they stand by their against submissions personally.. How crazy is that?
Brett Fenton ( Melbourne IT) it seems cannot see logic, facts or listen to anyone against it who has supporting evidence etc. That is for him to decide if he wants to go down as the person who stuffed up the existing .au namespace and caused havoc or not... From the PRP meetings this has already now occurred.
They have looked at a lot of options and it is simply a mess with any proposed suggestion or model. Every model will have major ramifications and legal risk for auDA and auDA Directors personally. The Panel has a duty to also warn auDA Board about this.
I have no doubts there are more than 7 potential litigants ready... Only 7 are needed for a class action lawsuit. The mess and damage caused could have been avoided by auDA and this also has a cost already.
If I was a DROP CATCHER I would also join a lawsuit for damages..esoecially after the PRP meetings, cut off date and PRP suggestions have been made to the public and damaged those businesses.
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DomainNames
Top Contributor
Perhaps you need to look at what happened in nz and the uk regarding legal issues.
Why?
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DomainNames
Top Contributor
What are the .nz and .uk obvious precedents?
How do they qualify as precedents relating to auDA, the .au namespace, DoCA and Australian laws?
DomainNames
Top Contributor
We are in Australia.
Australian laws and various aspects of Australian Government oversight/ responsibility are applicable to the decisions and actions of auDA, the Trustee for The auDA Foundation and the auDA Board.
The .nz and .uk and their admin bodies have nothing to do with it really except as evidence they did it differently and it has failed in both examples miserably....
Now yes even there there are legal issues and costs occurring between parties in both those regions... we don't see that mentioned or on the potential benefits or risks presented by auDA, PRP and supply here in material about .au implementation.
The PRP suggestions for the .au disputes was that "eligible parties would work it out between themselves"... really? Good luck with that. Let's watch RealEstate.com.au against Real Estate Association against Realestate.au or Whirlpool.net.au verses Whirlpool.com.au etc etc. That all costs money..
90,000+ existing .au names are already recognised as being a major issue by the PRP for dispute. That is 90,000 potential legal problems, time, effort, money, stress between those parties.. which is all avoidable.
What do you do now if your existing .au name is one of the 90,000? Should auDA tell you now so you can make a PRP submission and get some information from auDA at least? That also has legal ramifications they are doing nothing to advise registrants...
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Yes we are in Australia but as we are part of the Commonwealth we share many of the same laws as New Zealand and obviously the UK and they are the 2 examples that are being mentioned as a comparison to our situation. All of the issues that you have raised were previously raised in those jurisdictions but I haven’t seen any mention of post implementation litigation against the governing bodies in either country. No doubt any litigation action would be well under way by now and would been reported. Is this just because they have been a flop although we will need to wait until next year for the UK to be finalised???
DomainNames
Top Contributor
Less than 100 people in total across Australia including auDA staff and the Panel!
A complete failure. ... Did auDA and auDA PRP really want people going asking questions and speaking, asking for facts, providing facts against, sharing SEO facts etc ?
From the way they treated Jim Stewart in Melbourne obviously not!....... Big mistake to shoot down an expert in SEO and try to B.S. him with no facts at all when asked...
Anyone who attended the PRP meetings can verify this was a failure and the meetings did not answer the issues or come up with any suitable suggestions or models for implementation at all.
"As a practical matter direct registration cannot be implemented."
The false arguments we need more domain name extensions is now proven B.S. Globally there are over 1500 now to choose from and more coming..... Melbourne IT sells them and promotes them also!
The .uk and .nz have not been "remarkably successful" they have failed.The claim was B.S. they where and are successful
In the .UK they gave them away FREE in 2017 to pump up the numbers to try and falsify demand stats and success.
A complete failure. ... Did auDA and auDA PRP really want people going asking questions and speaking, asking for facts, providing facts against, sharing SEO facts etc ?
From the way they treated Jim Stewart in Melbourne obviously not!....... Big mistake to shoot down an expert in SEO and try to B.S. him with no facts at all when asked...
Anyone who attended the PRP meetings can verify this was a failure and the meetings did not answer the issues or come up with any suitable suggestions or models for implementation at all.
"As a practical matter direct registration cannot be implemented."
The false arguments we need more domain name extensions is now proven B.S. Globally there are over 1500 now to choose from and more coming..... Melbourne IT sells them and promotes them also!
The .uk and .nz have not been "remarkably successful" they have failed.The claim was B.S. they where and are successful
In the .UK they gave them away FREE in 2017 to pump up the numbers to try and falsify demand stats and success.
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snoopy
Top Contributor
- They didn't want the general public there.
- They didn't want questions asked that were negative on the proposal.
- They'd like everyone to believe this is a done deal.
It is time to talk about the merits of the proposal auDA!
DomainNames
Top Contributor
I think it is time we think if current auDA Management is the right body, model and people to have all together managing the .au namespace.
I think the DoCA needs to be looking very hard at the damage to the .au space over the last few years caused by auDA Management of the .au namespace. A lot of media and non of it good no matter how auDA tries to spin it.
snoopy
Top Contributor
I see AUDA has already changed the wording of this, attempting to plug the obvious holes in the PRP panel's arguments.
A few days ago
New
Confirms also that the do have staff that constantly monitor these forums and report back to senior management.
DomainNames
Top Contributor
Hmmm I don't think they want 3 million .au "Domain Name Owners" thinking now they have less rights or they may very well create an even larger problem for themselves....
Stating the .au consumer is an "owner" in advertising and vast amounts of materials over so many years? .... Legal minefield...Over the years how many people bought a .au name thinking they would be the "owners" and had some form of rights?... Millions of people / companies / registrants/ owners..
"Owner" seems to have create the perception of "Ownership"?
Stating the .au consumer is an "owner" in advertising and vast amounts of materials over so many years? .... Legal minefield...Over the years how many people bought a .au name thinking they would be the "owners" and had some form of rights?... Millions of people / companies / registrants/ owners..
"Owner" seems to have create the perception of "Ownership"?
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snoopy
Top Contributor
Agree, they are on the path to annoying even more people by stating people don't own those domains. I wonder who they think "owns" them? AUDA owns them? All your domains are belong to us?
To me this shows that some on the panel and AUDA (who seem to be dictating to the "independent" panel) are out of touch with business owners.
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