Bitcoins

[helloworld]

A mate brought these up with me not to long after they launched. "I'm buying $200 worth, they're only $0.30 each. Not much to lose, could be really successful"

I had all intentions of listening to him, but never got around to it. So my bitcoin portfolio...is well, in X,XXX instead of $XXX,XXXX

Hit $600.00AUD today

Interesting article here. http://money.cnn.com/2013/11/12/investing/bitcoin-record-high/

But he says "Bitcoin is also often discussed as an alternative to gold, since many investors see the digital currency as a way to store value.
Raoul Pal, who writes the investment newsletter The Global Macro Investor, compared Bitcoin with gold to come up with a "broad guestimate" for how investors should value the currency.
In a report published earlier this month, Pal said that based on the supply of gold and Bitcoin, the digital currency should be worth about 700 ounces of gold, which works out to just under $900,000 at current prices.
"I personally believe that Bitcoin may well explode in value as more and more people begin to use it," said Pal."

Is he saying $900K each coin? I feel like I should be emptying my wallet lol take it, take it all haha

 

[Ash]

Where do you buy bitcoins? Is there any one place that's better/more trusted than others?

 

[helloworld]

There are Australian businesses trading/brokering.

Bitinnovate.comBitinnovate.com was good but they haven't been open for a few months.

Spendbitcoins.com I am told is good.

Mtgox.com is largest trading site but haven't used it

 

[Ash]

Thanks, I'll check them out.

 

[helloworld]

They are now at $940!!!!

Crazy

 

[helloworld]

and like that $300 falls off lol

 

[asantha]

I feel its going fast and will fail soon

 

[helloworld]

I feel its going fast and will fail soon

on what basis.

I think it might rain today, but yanno there are gray clouds outside.

 

[Chris.C]

I thought I'd throw my two bob in on Bitcoin - I wrote this response for a client in early 2013:

In short, it has been around for quite awhile now. I sort of like the idea. Their system makes money a far better store of value (in that inflation is less of an issue) and the ideology is a good one.

Though there is one main flaw to bitcoins that will probably never be overcome...

I can never see any government/central banks around the world accepting them as legal tender because it will instantly destroy their own power over their currencies.

So they won't accept them as payment for taxes, nor can business expenses that are paid for in bitcoin be written off against profits in legal tender, so businesses won't use them, nor will central banks accept them as bank reserves which means they can't be used for loans, and if you take away these three things the currency will never truly catch on.

Without the endorsement of government as a legal form of tender they will only be worth what other bitcoin users are willing to pay for them and they will remain more of a niche barter currency (a bit like physical gold really, except the big difference between gold and bitcoins is that all the central banks around the world still use gold as part of their banking reserves).

And if governments were ever to allow for payment of taxes with decentralised digital currencies you can bet your bottom dollar that they would setup their own digital currencies rather than adopt bitcoins (a currency they don't control).

And then of course there is the issue of something that isn't regulated nor has any investment into securitisation of the system means it will only be a matter of time before an opportunist takes advantage of the system, whether that is through market manipulation or simple hacking and the system will come under constant attack if there is a financial incentive to do so.

Also bitcoins solve one problem of modern currencies (the basement of currencies by government and central banks) however it does solve the other major concern that many have about modern currencies - their fiat nature.

Bitcoins are still not backed by anything tangible. Whilst not essential, most successful currency launches have been in response to the debasement of the incumbent currency and have offered convertible into something tangible in nature, ie gold, silver, copper, wheat, barley, cotton, etc to protect against financial mismanagement.

On the flip side they are a great way of avoiding taxes as well as spending unlaundered money - so I suspect there will always be some appeal.

 

[Chris.C]

Only a couple of hours of posting above I stumble across this article in my daily readings:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...ity-fuels-rally-in-virtual-currency-tech.html

 

[helloworld]

$1300 aud. Crazy

 

[FirstPageResults]

Came across this petition on change.org calling on the govt to regulate bitcoin due to a 21 y.o purchasing drugs online and over dosing:

https://www.change.org/en-AU/petiti...iry-into-bitcoin-it-s-protecting-drug-dealers

Very sad story, and understandably the parents are ropable.. however I can't help but think does the same onus not fall on Facebook for facilitating the messages, or the ISP for providing the network etc?

These sorts of misunderstandings threaten Bitcoin.

On a semi related note, Asia's richest man recently invested in BitPay (the PayPal for Bitcoin) which some analysts likened selling shovels during a gold rush.

 

[James]

I think BitCoin is worth the risk if you got in at the early stages.

Winklevoss twins have a huge holding.

The only thing I purchased 2 years when the coins were cheap was a Bitcoin domain, I should have invested $$$ into coins haha

 

[m8e]

I guess the whole contraband darknet marketplaces have helped a lot in justifying the reason for bitcoins existence.

In hindsight, it would have been nice to have taken more notice when the slashdotters started talking about it all those years ago. It seemed interesting but at the time I thought "just another e-gold" without really looking into all that much (and actually e-gold kind of made more sense because it was supposed to be backed by real gold)

On slashdot I noticed someone saying ppcoin and litecoin are the only things worth mining now. Probably posted by someone with a vested interest

 

[helloworld]

on a semi related topic...offering bitcoin payments has earned me some very decent links and brand mentions.

Still no bitcoin payments but yanno, maybe things will come in time lol

Out of interest, Litecoin owner is the brother of a bitcoin chinese exchange. There is defintly room for other coins. I have read that bitccoin could become something you buy large purchases with i.e. a house/ car and litecoin could be soething like laptops or holidays etc

There are also other coins that are worth looking at. In some instances you could buy 1000000 for $30. But at the moment it's like buying actual real fake monopoly money.

If you owned a large community, you could easily introduce a currrancy and make it so that was the only currancy available on the site.

XMB forum has a plugin that allows this but it's far less superior php version with set values etc. But yeah get what I am saying..

 

[snoopy]

"I personally believe that Bitcoin may well explode in value as more and more people begin to use it," said Pal."

Is he saying $900K each coin? I feel like I should be emptying my wallet lol take it, take it all haha

Funny how these guys always say what has already happened. They have already exploded in value

Personally I get the feeling the number of people who actually got rich is limited, much like not not many people got rich buying domains in 1994 and holding them. For a start hardly anyone is actually involved early on, especially from a speculative point of view, despite what they claim years later about "being there".

Secondly it is convenient to think all these people bought in thinking it was a good investment and then sold at the peaks. There is dozens of points in time at which they'd be a very tempted to sell, let their domains expire, send their computer to the tip etc.

For you friend who you say bought in at 30 cents, what is he doing now? His portfolio should be worth $700,000.

For the people actually buying in now, I'd say they are standing in the queue next to taxi drivers, bell hops and all the others who watched the stories on Today Tonight.

 

[helloworld]

He never bought in, similar restrictions back then. The seller wanted a passport.

I think there is plenty of opportunity to get rich off bit coin still but some people are going to go broke.

They were at $650 aud last week and $1200 yesterday. That's after news china semi banned them and then as zynga pushed out PR and they increased.

If you can buy low and sell high which bitcoin has extremes of you could defintley make a profit but yanno you could be left holding the baby and lose it all eventually. Lots of uncertainty

 

[snoopy]

He never bought in, similar restrictions back then. The seller wanted a passport.

There is always some reason or other why people were supposedly there but somehow missed out. I really doubt he was ever serious about it, or ever thought it would increase a lot (until perhaps now). People who truly thought it would go up a lot would be in like flynn at that time.

If you can buy low and sell high which bitcoin has extremes of you could defintley make a profit but yanno you could be left holding the baby and lose it all eventually. Lots of uncertainty

That doesn't really mean anything though. It is a bit like saying "If you can guess what number the ball will land on you will definitely make money at roulette".

 

[helloworld]

Of course. But I was there. It wasn't talk of as investment but as it's core objective which is being a decentralized currency. You're probably right about him not being serious. But his missus is a professional writer and signed up to some odesk equivalent.


If you've got a smart phone install but tracker and set up some alerts you will soon see the fluctuations. But yea, as I said you could end up holding the baby

 

[Chris.C]

Everyone seems to get into hysterics when the bitcoin prices starts drifting up. No one wanted to talk about it when it halved in value recently...



I'm still 98% confident bitcoin will come to nothing.

Without sounding like too much of a dick, my original post holds truer than ever in light of recent events.

I can never see any government/central banks around the world accepting them as legal tender because it will instantly destroy their own power over their currencies.

Hate to say I told you so, but that's exactly what the PBOC did.

Bitcoin values fell by 50% when the PBOC denied banks from being able to use it as currency and shutdown the online exchanges... imagine if the rest the world's central banks and government decided to also follow in the Chinese footsteps.

I just can't see past the fact that Governments have no incentive to legitmise this currency...

It's all well and good to believe in "people power" but I think without major world currency turmoil (which will happen in some countries in the coming years and decades) prompting people to look for serious alternatives I doubt bitcoin will ever achieve a critical mass large enough to put pressure on the governments and banks to legitimise it.

Even then I'm not confident that when the next major currency crisis comes that people will be looking at Bitcoin as the solution anyway. It certainly would be my first choice of safe-haven.

And if governments were ever to allow for payment of taxes with decentralised digital currencies you can bet your bottom dollar that they would setup their own digital currencies rather than adopt bitcoins (a currency they don't control).

And now it seems there are half a dozen alternative "me too" digital currencies springing up out of nowhere because there are no barriers to entry on creating a digital currency (though I'll admit that BitCoin definitely has a niche first mover advantage). Ultimately no barriers to entry means no sustainable value. And it highlights what would be more likely - ie government own/managed/regulated digital currencies.

Without the endorsement of government as a legal form of tender they will only be worth what other bitcoin users are willing to pay for them and they will remain more of a niche barter currency (a bit like physical gold really, except the big difference between gold and bitcoins is that all the central banks around the world still use gold as part of their banking reserves).

If a digital currency developer REALLY wants to create a global and independent digital currency that catches on with the masses (and turns the heads of bankers and governments) they should make a digital currency that can be used as a store of wealth and for online transactions AND is backed by gold...




If they did that I'd SERIOUSLY consider moving a healthy amount of my capital into it (and I know I wouldn't be alone) and it would offer a very nice alternative to government bonds or cash deposits that yield 0% in our world of quantitative easing.

And then of course there is the issue of something that isn't regulated nor has any investment into securitisation of the system means it will only be a matter of time before an opportunist takes advantage of the system, whether that is through market manipulation or simple hacking and the system will come under constant attack if there is a financial incentive to do so.

Unfortunately I think Bitcoin is a good old fashioned high profile hacking away from going to $0.

...but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe BitCoin is the next BIG thing.