Important Changes to our Auction format

[findtim]

Chris C I was just making an analogy of your point on businesses choosing dollars over customers.

and for the record I have said and I do respect your deep thinking data based mind, so maybe never never land was a bit strong

I've never said I don't want NF to make money, it was a great service.

there was no FREE ride, if you paid $4000 for a dropping domain then that was a very healthy profit for NF.

great you bought 14 domains this month, all that means is there were 14 that you were attracted to, I've bought 3 , why, because no others interested me........ that's all, no big deal.

NF is going to do what its going to do, and if we all shut up and say nothing then its a given.

we will need to see what happens when a big domain comes through the door.

tim

 

[Chris.C]

Chris C I was just making an analogy of your point on businesses choosing dollars over customers.

I think 99% of businesses would choose to increase prices and make more dollars if they thought their customers would let them get away with it.

NetFleet is lucky enough to be in a "to the winner goes the spoils" environment where they can set their terms.

there was no FREE ride, if you paid $4000 for a dropping domain then that was a very healthy profit for NF.

Fair point.

It wasn't a FREE ride, but it definitely was a CHEAP ride, relative to domain's intrinsic values...



...or at least I always felt it was.

There's not many industries where you can buy something for $XXX and then comfortably be able to sell it retail with a 500%+ markup.



I bet they would have seen hundreds of domains get bought on their platform over the years for $50 - $500 and just cried...

great you bought 14 domains this month, all that means is there were 14 that you were attracted to, I've bought 3 , why, because no others interested me... that's all, no big deal.

I'm the exact same, some months it is 1 or 2 the next month it's 10 - 20.

My point was simply in response to DL who was trying to implying that I didn't care because I wasn't involved anymore - and that just wasn't true - I do still buy domains - and I wanted to clarify that.

NF is going to do what its going to do, and if we all shut up and say nothing then its a given.

But if you just let them do what they want to do then vote with your dollars instead of your words, then when the dollars dry up when they've made a bad change they will definitely want your opinion.

So my point was simply that they will set their policies around profitability not a few people's opinions - so we may as well just leave them to it.

we will need to see what happens when a big domain comes through the door.

Indeed we will.

That said, some fun facts for everyone...

I recently crunched some numbers on the data I could get my hands on (NF took down their auction results page - so thank you Google cache).



Based on a random selection of about 280 domains that dropped mid week in Oct prior to the change the average price achieved of a domain in the middle 60% (ie once you remove the top 20% and bottom 20% - because they can distort the data) was $16 and the median price was $10.

Under the new system today the result average of the middle 60% was $31 and the median was $25...

Obviously early days but the numbers look compelling for NetFleet's new system...

The big factor that might take some time to work out is whether of not there has been a drop in the number of domains that are bid on (obviously profitability is a function of quantity and margin).

And if the big ticket domains still achieve good results.

I'll be watching with great interest over the coming days...

 

[zhenjie]

Very surprised at this 'bend over and take it' attitude.

 

[findtim]

if they thought their customers would let them get away with it.

my point exactly, shall we just all lay down and die? I guess yes as the views on this topic are huge and not many active posts, so walk with your wallet and see what happens.

I know I have seen some good pickups today on drop and I honestly feel its because of the layout of NF, because they do not bring the domain with bids to the top they are missing out big time, time will tell.

I bet they would have seen hundreds of domains get bought on their platform over the years for $50 - $500 and just cried...

its been happening since noah built the ark, well he didn't build it, he bought it at auction.

tim

 

[Chris.C]

Very surprised at this 'bend over and take it' attitude.

It's the way of the world.

I know I have seen some good pickups today on drop and I honestly feel its because of the layout of NF, because they do not bring the domain with bids to the top they are missing out big time, time will tell.

Yeah I'm a bit surprised by this part of the new setup...

I know I'm often lazy and often just tended to look at the domains that already have bids to decide on what is worth bidding on.



And obviously I have a few alerts set to notify me of anything in my areas of interest.

But I think not knowing which domains currently have interest in them stops the "passer by" bidder from bidding.

 

[Blue Wren]

I don't even go to Netfleet any more. I use Drop.

 

[findtim]

I know in the past I have gone at @ noon " HOW T F did I miss that " and then started bidding, this just simply doesn't happen with the new format.

I think one example of this for me was I ended up winning at $1700, oh gee sorry I sniped it ! but it was at $43 I think ? when I put my bid in.

SO if I didn't bid someone would have got it for $43, that's a huge difference in NF profit.

so the moral is " snipers are good for business "

tim

 

[James]

I notice that bids are going higher and higher on DROP, and the winning prices are actually FAR lower on Netfleet.

So domainers may be saving money LOL

 

[Chris.C]

I notice that bids are going higher and higher on DROP

We're all domainer whores - our bids go to the platform most likely to win (and offer good value)...

the winning prices are actually FAR lower on Netfleet.

I'm keeping track of the numbers at the moment.

From what I've seen the bids are relatively similar for MOST domains...



Obviously Smarts.com.au underperformed on NetFleet only getting $333 to Drop's $611.

What I found interesting today was rockhampton.net.au went for $179 on BOTH platforms in spite of different auction systems - looks like some people prefer fixed bidding on Drop as well (or there's something fishy going on)...



Then there was MobileRingtones.com.au which went for $222 on NF and $223 on Drop - I guess that means someone who was willing to pay more didn't bid on NetFleet...

Luckily for NetFleet the second highest bidder was still willing to bid so they effectively got the same result.

The most interesting data I'm seeing is that that in the past only 33% of domains on NetFleet were sold for more than $10.

Now only 90% of domains are being sold for more than $10!

The two figures I'm watching the most are the average of "the middle 60%" and the "top 5% - 25%".

The Middle 60%:
Old - $16
New - $36

The Top 5% - 25%
Old - $106
New - $135

This seems to be suggesting to me that their new system does net them slightly better results for the majority of domains.

But I'm operating on a pretty small sample size at this point and of course it's the big ticket domains that will be quite interesting (ie the top 5%).

I guess time will tell.

 

[DomainNames]

The Domain Catalogue Netfleet automated "buy It Now" might need some fixing?

http://www.netfleet.com.au/catalogue-domains?o=buynow&adv=&l=100&s=

Can people set a minimum bid offer now again

 

[findtim]

doesn't look automated to me, looks like the owners set the BIN.

tim

edit: on closer review, I think I am wrong.

 

[Chris.C]

Well it looks like it was a good day for NetFleet.

Here's the latest comparison data

Old System Results:
AVG (Mid 60%): $16
Top 20%: $288
Top 5% - 25%: $106
Bottom 20%: $10

New System results:
AVG (Mid 60%): $56
Top 20%: $275
Top 5% - 25%: $162
Bottom 20%: $10

Looks like the average result is SUBSTANTIALLY better - however my gut feeling is lower than it was with the previous system...

Is anyone at NetFleet willing to provide any commentary on NetFleet's perspective on the results thus far?

I also noticed a few people who swore they'd never use NetFleet again start bidding again today...



... which is great to see and will no doubt be a positive for the bid prices going forward.

 

[davids]

Well it looks like it was a good day for NetFleet.

Here's the latest comparison data

Old System Results:
AVG (Mid 60%): $16
Top 20%: $288
Top 5% - 25%: $106
Bottom 20%: $10

New System results:
AVG (Mid 60%): $56
Top 20%: $275
Top 5% - 25%: $162
Bottom 20%: $10

Looks like the average result is SUBSTANTIALLY better - however my gut feeling is lower than it was with the previous system...

Is anyone at NetFleet willing to provide any commentary on NetFleet's perspective on the results thus far?

I also noticed a few people who swore they'd never use NetFleet again start bidding again today...



... which is great to see and will no doubt be a positive for the bid prices going forward.

What are the total daily results like (inclusive of outliers)? I think that would probably be the best way to do a comparison... I doubt they care in the slightest if the average domains went up in price a little, it'd be the premium domains and total intake they're after the increases in.

 

[findtim]

Chris C: , your stats do not and CAN NOT calculate for the NOW non bidders on NF, there has been an increase in DROP catches because of people not bidding on NF, there has been a decrease in NF bids because domains no longer go to the top of the tree.

prices now v past is just worthless info, its all dependant on the names available.

NF are missing out on the competitive nature of a TRUE auction.

Its slipping through their fingers and I am sure they can feel it in just 1 week of trade.

as for comment of people who "swore" they wouldn't bid on netfleet I think you must have misread their words, + it would be totally shameful of anyone going through your archive of rants about NF wouldn't it

tim

 

[Chris.C]

What are the total daily results like (inclusive of outliers)?

Presently the top 10% looks like this:

Old: $492
New: $415

So old is outperforming presently, but that's almost entirely due to skateboards.com.au selling for $5,114.

If you take out that 1 domain the old average is back down to just above $300.

It's because of these outliers, which are completely random, is why I think the data tells a better story when you remove the top 5%.

If the sample size I was working with was much bigger you could keep them in - but unfortuantely NetFleet is getting less transparent about past results so it's hard to grab recent data and their is no point in me using the data I do have from previous years because domain pricing is so volatile over that sort of time frame.

I doubt they care in the slightest if the average domains went up in price a little, it'd be the premium domains and total intake they're after the increases in.

I agree that big ticket domains are appreciated... but given they caught 1000 domains last month - whether they get $16 or $56 actually makes a HUGE difference - $40 x 1000 domains...



Kaching!!

So big ticket sales are nice, but the average domain is their bread and butter.

Chris C your stats do not and CAN NOT calculate for the NOW non bidders on NF.

I agree - and my mistake - I actually went to point this out in my post when I said:

"Looks like the average result is SUBSTANTIALLY better - however my gut feeling is lower than it was with the previous system... "

I was meaning to say:

Looks like the average result is SUBSTANTIALLY better - however my gut feeling is quantity is lower than it was with the previous system...

Brainfart + not proof reading.

prices now v past is just worthless info, its all dependant on the names available.

Yes and no. Like I've previously said if you get a big enough sample size and strip the outliers - the results can be insightful.

NF are missing out on the competitive nature of a TRUE auction.

There are pluses and minuses to the new system, but yesterday I did notice a domain that went for a big amount on NF that only got $1 on Drop...

That will definitely happen from time to time where NetFleet benefits greatly because of a buyer who just has to have some random name that no one else sees as valuable.

Its slipping through their fingers and I am sure they can feel it in just 1 week of trade.

I'm not so sure... I think they'd be quietly happy with the results thus far...

...but I'd love to hear from them as to what they think.

it would be totally shameful of anyone going through your archive of rants about NF wouldn't it

Yes I rant about NetFleet - but it's always from a "constructive criticism" perspective - I WANT them to improve their system so I can use it EVEN MORE.

 

[neddy]

I'll try not to bore everyone with a long rambling post. I haven't commented for a while, but I thought I'd share these personal observations on Netfleet's current trial:

• The current auction format has not worked like NF hoped it would. Seasoned bidders have changed their bidding strategies (whilst I don't speak for others, many of us do confer).
  
  
• Apart from winning a backorder yesterday on PerthRealEstate.com.au (thank you NF!), I have not had a bid on their platform for 12 days. I like transparency and the ability to put in proxy bids - and so I have taken my chances with Drop (and had a few wins as well).
  
  
• Now NF may not give a toss about my bids, but I belong to that core customer base that used to spend money with them day in; day out (my spend with NF this year is high 5 figures). I won quite a few; and lost some too. The ones I lost, NF still won; because I contested and helped drive the price up. Now they get nothing from me - directly or indirectly.

I respect the fact that NF has the right to operate their business how they see fit - but I truly hope that this "trial" comes to and end soon, and we can get back to having vibrant and transparent contests. That's my Birthday / Christmas wish anyway.

 

[Ash]

I'll try not to bore everyone with a long rambling post.

Forget the long post, I reckon the NF drops are now boring. Can't see any prices or big last minute bids - not much fun for spectators/occasional bidders.

 

[Data Glasses]

Wow ......14 pages and going strong, is this a record for a dntrade thread ?

 

[Data Glasses]

Forget the long post, I reckon the NF drops are now boring. Can't see any prices or big last minute bids - not much fun for spectators/occasional bidders.

...Agreed

 

[Chris.C]

Forget the long post, I reckon the NF drops are now boring. Can't see any prices or big last minute bids - not much fun for spectators/occasional bidders.

HAHAHA yeah I agree!

That said, I can't complain too much it's one less distraction during the day which allows you to get on with more productive work.

I think the really big thing I've noticed is how different it feels when bidding...

I feel like it's just me and my paranoia...

Because you are blind to the other "potential bids" how much I FEAR losing the domain to someone else is really driving my bidding.