Cybersquat

[Scott.L]

Hi Guys, I have a situation developing perhaps someone out there can help.

I have my eyes on a domain name that has remained inactive for years at MelbIT. I have sent emails to the registrant contact to negotiate a sale approx 3 over 12 months, I have made fair and reasonable offers for this domain name. All this time and no response, so i decided to call the owner, the owner was rude and appeared offended when i asked if he was willing to sell it.

the domain is inactive, its never used, this guy is simply sitting on it for whatever reason...i want it, what can i do? He's cybersquatting -

 

[DavidL]

If he's cybersquatting, then you will be when you take it over... unless it's your brand he's taking advantage of?

 

[helloworld]

Some people just don't want to sell. Not everyone buys domains as an investment...in fact most people. What's the domain ?

 

[goldnugget]

the domain is inactive, its never used, this guy is simply sitting on it for whatever reason...i want it, what can i do? He's cybersquatting -

And there we go again. As you have said, he has had it for years, he's not using it and you want it, but because he doesnt want to sell it he is (according to you) Cyber Squatting.

Can we please have a once and for all legal definition of 'Cyber Squatting'....if it was me and I owned a domain that I wasnt doing anything with or marketing to others for profit and I was labelled a cybersquatter for doing so I would be talking to my solicitor. He has a legal licence to hold the name, if he isnt infringing on trademark or business name issues with it (which you have already said he isnt) then why start with the name calling?

 

[findtim]

webponic: you aren't giving us much to go on, how about you PM some people you trust and give up the domain name for an honest closed opinion, or give more detail?

DavidL is right in his comment so you need to make sure your motives are ok as well.

tim

 

[chris]

Hi Guys, I have a situation developing perhaps someone out there can help.

I have my eyes on a domain name that has remained inactive for years at MelbIT. I have sent emails to the registrant contact to negotiate a sale approx 3 over 12 months, I have made fair and reasonable offers for this domain name. All this time and no response, so i decided to call the owner, the owner was rude and appeared offended when i asked if he was willing to sell it.

the domain is inactive, its never used, this guy is simply sitting on it for whatever reason...i want it, what can i do? He's cybersquatting -

If you've spoken to them and you really want the name, you need to make a better than reasonable offer

Hope you can turn the current owner around!

Cheers,
Chris

 

[chris]

Can we please have a once and for all legal definition of 'Cyber Squatting'....

Good point Jay and one that comes up every now and then, I've started a new thread since it might get a little off-topic.

 

[findtim]

If you've spoken to them and you really want the name, you need to make a better than reasonable offer

Hope you can turn the current owner around!

Cheers,
Chris

if you go in to high the average person will go " will HEY, lets double it and see what happens "

this thread happens to be completely the opposite to this CURRENT thread: https://www.dntrade.com.au/do-you-settle-t7026.html?t=7026 , just thought that info was valid.

tim

 

[chris]

For sure, it comes down to how bad you want the name.

 

[goldnugget]

I want to take the opportunity to firstly apologise if I came in strongly with my post, secondly, thank you Chris for putting up a legal definition of 'cybersquatting' (sticky?).

I dont know first hand any of the details in this particular case, my comment is based on the details supplied in the first post.

People have domains registered for all sorts of reasons. It could be a business attachment past present or future, it could be a personal attachment...maybe something to do with personal interest or something that was close to a family member or friend that has since passed on...the point is, no-one except for the registrant knows what it means to them or their intent.

With the exception of the registrant doing anything wrong (illegal), no-one is in a position to question what their intent is or has the right to push the issue, 3 email contacts were made which they may/may not have recieved that were not replied to, and the phone call didnt go any better with the exception that the registrant is probably more pissed than he was before.

I would leave it at that and live with it (especially if he said something along the lines of 'not interested at all, dont call me again'. Its his domain and any further contact could be deemed as harassment.

 

[snoopy]

This is a funny thread for a domain forum. It doesn't really matter what is said the reputation of domaining won't ever change. Even domainers like to throw around the C word.

Remind me a bit of this case,

http://www.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/433802.htm

Yes, we are all cannibals.

 

[chris]

I want to take the opportunity to firstly apologise if I came in strongly with my post, secondly, thank you Chris for putting up a legal definition of 'cybersquatting' (sticky?).

No problem at all. As I said the term is often misused so I think talking about what it means isn't a bad idea. I also didn't want to derail the conversation from Webponic getting advice in securing a name they're after.

I dont know first hand any of the details in this particular case, my comment is based on the details supplied in the first post.

People have domains registered for all sorts of reasons. It could be a business attachment past present or future, it could be a personal attachment...maybe something to do with personal interest or something that was close to a family member or friend that has since passed on...the point is, no-one except for the registrant knows what it means to them or their intent.

Correct, if they're eligible then they're fully entitled to it.

 

[johno69]

This is a funny thread for a domain forum.

I thought so too.

As everyone has said, who knows what they use the domain for.

An example: My mother seems to always get a dodgy ISP and was forever changing her email. So I registered a "made up word" which combines both her first name and the old mans first name. She has used that for many years now for email only. No intention on ever having a website.

Turns out after a few years we found out its a town name in QLD and have been approached to sell. Not interested. But doesn't make dear ol' mum a cybersquatter.

 

[findtim]

if your name is margaret river then you aren't a cybersquatter ( i know its not in qld)

tim

 

[Scott.L]

If he's cybersquatting, then you will be when you take it over... unless it's your brand he's taking advantage of?

I wont reveal the domain name in the forum its a generic single word, comparable to gold.com.au, silver.com.au, or diamonds.com.au as TLD goes in a niche and my offer is generous.

the owner responded with harsh language - its the first actual interaction, I felt it was inappropriate to talk to me in such a way even if it isn't.I didn't engage in argument simply said I'm sorry to bother you and hung up.

Most domain owners would be receptive to offers...its a type of flattery in a way even if the price isn't right, you can respond to it, you never really know what they are willing to pay.

I used cybersquatting because I guess for me the interpretation of a cybersquatter is a domain owner with intent to misuse the domain by not making it equitable. Its like australia.com.au what a shame to see it wasted on inactivity, regardless of the domain owners intent its frustrating to see such domains wasted when other domain owners are trying hard to lift the profile of .com.au as a premium investment in Australian business - The analogy - its like locking up a beautiful princess in a high tower until her beauty is gone with age and then allowing her to go free. BAH!

anyway, I think perhaps I used the wrong word to describe my feeling and frustration - perhaps i should of said "prick wont sell domain name"

 

[findtim]

thats probably a better explaination, yes very frustrating .

give it up, move on , he probably had a bad coffee just before you rang.

tim

 

[goldnugget]

perhaps i should of said "prick wont sell domain name"

That would probably have been a fairer statement.

Depends if he is a domainer or individual (how many other domains are registered by him?). If its only a small amount of domains he's not likely to be a domainer and the next suggestion could be your last and only shot.

If the phone call wasnt that long ago and you have definite plans develop the site and you really really want it then you could try one last email, but not with an offer.

Something along the lines of:

'Hi I just wanted to apologize once again for phoning you regards to domain xxxxxx.com.au . It was a domain that I would have liked to develop for the blah blah industry that I have an interest in and I noticed there was no site attached to the domain which is the reason that I made contact. If in the future you decide that you no longer have a need for xxxxxx.com.au feel free to contact me to see if we can come to a suitable agreement for the domain. I respect your privacy in the meantime and will not make further contact in relation to this matter. regards.......'

At least that way if hes not a domainer and aware of AMA's he may keep you in mind if he does decide to offload it. Its a long shot, but if he's not going to let it go now, then at least you want to be seen as genuine (from his point of view)if he does decide to sell or let it go down the track.

 

[snoopy]

I used cybersquatting because I guess for me the interpretation of a cybersquatter is a domain owner with intent to misuse the domain by not making it equitable. Its like australia.com.au what a shame to see it wasted on inactivity, regardless of the domain owners intent its frustrating to see such domains wasted when other domain owners are trying hard to lift the profile of .com.au as a premium investment in Australian business "

Please spare us the BS. That is not what the term means, and if you think you are more entitled that means nothing at all. In fact most people think that about whatever domain they want. Somehow their proposed usage is superior to the usage of the guy who owns it, therefore the name should be theirs. Doesn't matter that they are a day late and a dollar short.

What on earth does "misuse the domain by not making it equitable" mean?

I think I know what it means, you want the name and are not happy that you can't buy for the price you have offered, that is where it begins and ends.

 

[snoopy]

That would probably have been a fairer statement.

Depends if he is a domainer or individual (how many other domains are registered by him?). If its only a small amount of domains he's not likely to be a domainer and the next suggestion could be your last and only shot.

If the phone call wasnt that long ago and you have definite plans develop the site and you really really want it then you could try one last email, but not with an offer.

Something along the lines of:

'Hi I just wanted to apologize once again for phoning you regards to domain xxxxxx.com.au . It was a domain that I would have liked to develop for the blah blah industry that I have an interest in and I noticed there was no site attached to the domain which is the reason that I made contact. If in the future you decide that you no longer have a need for xxxxxx.com.au feel free to contact me to see if we can come to a suitable agreement for the domain. I respect your privacy in the meantime and will not make further contact in relation to this matter. regards.......'

At least that way if hes not a domainer and aware of AMA's he may keep you in mind if he does decide to offload it. Its a long shot, but if he's not going to let it go now, then at least you want to be seen as genuine (from his point of view)if he does decide to sell or let it go down the track.

The only way forward is to make a better offer on the name in my view. Agee the stuff about sorry for the phone call could be put in also.

 

[Chris.C]

The only way forward is to make a better offer on the name in my view. Agee the stuff about sorry for the phone call could be put in also.

+1

A day late and a dollar short.

+1

I have made fair and reasonable offers for this domain name

Yeah but this guy may not be a domainer who knows the market and if he is a mainstream guy running a mainstream business he probably thinks that if it ain't 5 or 6 figures he is not going to even turn his head.

Maybe your, what I assume, 3 or 4 figure offer was actually insulting and why he treated you harshly.

Also you need to remember just because you have an offer for him doesn't entitle you to his time or to call him whenever you want.

On top of all that you are potentially looking at this all the wrong way. The fact this that guy owns this sweet name, and has done nothing with is a god send for you.

If he had not of registered it and taken it off the market many years ago then someone else with a half baked idea would have bought it and it wouldn't not be available for you today.

Or if he had of done something with it and it was generating him a real income then his price expectations would probably be five times as high and out of your price range.

Instead, and luckily for you, there is a great domain just sitting there with an owners who probably doesn't know what to do with it or its value...

So maybe if you dropped the entitled attitude and tried to work with the guy potentially offer him an HONEST education on domains and domain values (at a time that suits him) and then showed a bit of courteous by offering him more than fair value given that he clearly hasn't come to the market looking to sell.

Hell maybe, he knows it's worth a boat load and he is in the industry and never going to sell, but at the same time he's not a tech guy and is he's not looking to sell as much as he is looking for a business partner to develop the name.

And at the end of the day if you have a really good business model for the domain that you are confident is going to make you money then just offer him a price that is a better return than he could ever hope to achieve from the domain himself...

That's the way capitalism works. The assets flow to those that can afford to pay more because they can leverage them better.

If you just want to throw up some thin MFA or affiliate piece of junk then leave the guy alone he is clearly waiting for a big player to come along and you are just wasting yours and his time.

Also read this, I wrote it 2.5 years ago:

http://www.internetmarketingstrategies.com.au/505-domainers-beat-you-to-it-welcome-to-capitalism

Best of luck.