byronbayholidayhouses.com

[jhellyer]

Any thoughts on value? Personally I can see a bit in it, but not sure others will be the same Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[snoopy]

Would describe the name as marginal. The name is good enough to run a business out of but the potential market likely consists of half a dozen estate agents etc so I think the probability of selling it is low. There is also a potential confusion issue with another established player which may put some off. (byronbayholidayrentals.com.au)

To run a site that that well would likely be a full time job + staff and would involve having an office in the town in my view.

Gut feeling is low 2 figures.

 

[jhellyer]

byronbayholidayhomes.com

Thanks Snoop, always appreciate your feedback

 

[jhellyer]

No one else?

 

[neddy]

Just my personal opinion Jason, but for something as local as this, I think a .com is not the right extension. Therefore I'd put its value as minimal.

I'd be looking to acquire com.au's - plus something with better search volume.

I own quite a few "Byron Bay" names, and some of them have nearly 3000 Exacts a month as opposed to this one which only has 320.

As I said, imho.

 

[jhellyer]

Thanks Neddy, glad to hear your opinion any day! Much appreciated.

I'm going looking for an end user now...lol

 

[snoopy]

Just my personal opinion Jason, but for something as local as this, I think a .com is not the right extension. Therefore I'd put its value as minimal.

I'd be looking to acquire com.au's - plus something with better search volume.

I own quite a few "Byron Bay" names, and some of them have nearly 3000 Exacts a month as opposed to this one which only has 320.

As I said, imho.

hmm, misread this thread as I thought it was .com.au, no value in .com in my view, as you say, wrong extension. It is unsuitable for the local market and I don't think it is going to be viable trying to run something only for international visitors.

 

[Bacon Farmer]

I think it's ok. Firstly because other .com's are at the top of the serps and because almost a quarter of visitors are from overseas.

If you search for "byron bay", you'll see plenty of .com's at the top.

Byron Shire Visitor Profi le and Satisfaction Report: Summary and Discussion of Results

"Three quarters (76%) of visitors were travelling domestically. About 44% of domestic visitors were from Queensland, 32% from New South Wales and 17% from Victoria.

The highest proportions of international visitors were from New Zealand (18%), North America (16%), UK (16%), Scandinavia (10%) and Germany (9%)."

For that domain if it got to the first page for the keywords it would be worth a pretty penny to someone who owned a Byron holiday house.

You could just throw up this template or similar with bogus or borrowed details and get it ranked and then hit owners up. A one off cost, of say $1,000 to an owner, would be an attractive alternative to paying commission to Stayz etc forever.

 

[neddy]

I beg to differ regarding the wrong extension. Firstly because other .com's are at the top of the serps and because almost a quarter of visitors are from overseas.

You don't have to beg BF.

Some good points you raise, though personally I'd still rather have the .com.au anyday. It would be even better to have both.

 

[snoopy]

I think it's ok. Firstly because other .com's are at the top of the serps and because almost a quarter of visitors are from overseas.

So what is the market, the 70 people a month from overseas who search for the term?

Even the nz people are going to expect .com.au in my view, just like Australian's would expect .co.nz for New Zealand sites.

 

[Bacon Farmer]

So what is the market, the 70 people a month from overseas who search for the term?

Even the nz people are going to expect .com.au in my view, just like Australian's would expect .co.nz for New Zealand sites.

Did you miss the point I made that a .com is number 1 for "byron bay" in google.com.au?

 

[snoopy]

Did you miss the point I made that a .com is number 1 for "byron bay" in google.com.au?

If I start a business, and make mostly good decisions but with numerous bad decisions but still become successful does that mean people should copy the bad decisions? That site also has a hyphen in it, does that mean hyphens are a good idea and that such domains are easily saleable?

Can I form a business on a weak domain? [Yes]
Should I form a business on a weak domain? [No]
Should I register hyphenated .com's for resale to Australian businesses? [?]

I think overall you are looking at it the wrong way around, I'm not talking about what Google sees, I talking about how a consumer is going to see it. Can they easily remember a .com when it should be a .com.au? Do they think a .com is trustworthy when it should be a .com.au?

The reality is Google would likely rank a .ws if everything else was right about the site, does that mean using .ws is a good business decision?

 

[Bacon Farmer]

It's not a weak domain for a Byron Bay holiday house.

Consumers who use google don't care if the top of the serps are .com's or .com.au's. They click on the ones at the top.

I think you are looking at it from a domainer point of view not as a developer.

It would be very easy to get that into the top 3 for the exact phrase and whilst the traffic is not high it doesn't need to be when these properties can rent for $4k per week in the low season.

If you get 70 visitors per month that fantastic because there's only 4 weeks in the month (ie very limited stock).

The other thing is that there are quite a few potential clients [500+] to sell the site to.

Who mentioned .ws?

I can see your point though, in the top 20 or so for Byron Bay, there are .com's, .net's, .org's and .com.au's.

 

[snoopy]

It's not a weak domain for a Byron Bay holiday house.

Consumers who use google don't care if the top of the serps are .com's or .com.au's. They click on the ones at the top.

I think you are looking at it from a domainer point of view not as a developer.

Can people remember a hyphen and .com when they try to remember the site? There is a world beyond Google rankings. Repeat visitors, referrals, word of mouth etc.

It would be very easy to get that into the top 3 for the exact phrase and whilst the traffic is not high it doesn't need to be when these properties can rent for $4k per week in the low season.

If search engine ranking is all that matters why not just use a .co, or a .net.au or any old extension, maybe even a .com with a couple of hyphens? There is near unlimited supply of domains like that for reg fee, in "great" keywords.

If you get 70 visitors per month that fantastic because there's only 4 weeks in the month (ie very limited stock).

70 visitors a month would make for an unviable business in my view.

 

[Bacon Farmer]

Can people remember a hyphen and .com when they try to remember the site?

They get about 1.25 million visitors per annum, I don't think that's an issue.

And in a time when lots of people type google into the google search bar to get to google.com.au, typing byron bay into the search bar to get to byron-bay com is no stretch.

If search engine ranking is all that matters why not just use a .co, or a .net.au or any old extension, maybe even a .com with a couple of hyphens?

Why not it seems to work for credit cards [credit - cards net au at no 1]. Getting this .com ranked would be pretty easy.

70 visitors a month would make for an unviable business in my view.

When you're renting the beach house out for $4k per week spending a one off $1k on a domain, a site and some seo to get 70 visitors to your site each month, is clearly a good idea. In isolation in might not be enough to forgo the Stayz and adwords legs of the business. However the payback period could easily be with the first booking it makes, so by any business interpretation, it's a good investment.

 

[snoopy]

They get about 1.25 million visitors per annum, I don't think that's an issue.

The point isn't whether someone can run a successful business on a hyphenated .com for the Australian market, the issue is whether it is a good choice.

Delicious used a .us for a long time, the site became huge, whirlpool uses a .net.au, the site is big, shall we therefore conclude these were good domain choices? The issue is causation, where they helped by the domain choice or did they do well in spite of the domain? This one is somewhere in the middle in my view.

And in a time when lots of people type google into the google search bar to get to google.com.au, typing byron bay into the search bar to get to byron-bay com is no stretch.

What happens when the site is #2 in google down the track.....or #5, is relying on search engines a good way for a to get repeat business?

Why not it seems to work for credit cards [credit - cards net au at no 1]. Getting this .com ranked would be pretty easy.

Where is the value of the domain if it is just about getting ranked on a search engine? If .whatever for reg fee is a good as .com.au why would people spend any money on .com.au's?

When you're renting the beach house out for $4k per week spending a one off $1k on a domain, a site and some seo to get 70 visitors to your site each month, is clearly a good idea. In isolation in might not be enough to forgo the Stayz and adwords legs of the business. However the payback period could easily be with the first booking it makes, so by any business interpretation, it's a good investment.

There isn't 70 people going to the no.1 ranked site a month, there is 70 searches on google for the term.

The traffic is worth about $1.25 on google, I think the no.1 position on the term is worth a few hundred dollars per year. If you just had one beach house though the conversion rate is going to be terrible (because most people will have a different budget to where your house is priced at - higher or lower), so it wouldn't be likely to be worth $1.25 to that person.

I think you are overstating the profitability of things. The average beach houses loses money for owners, it is not rented most of the time then there is all the costs of a mortgage, maintaining, updating, council rates, utilities etc. The rent really just helps with the upkeep on it. Different situation for the agents who can build a real business around holiday homes.

 

[Bacon Farmer]

The point isn't whether someone can run a successful business on a hyphenated .com for the Australian market, the issue is whether it is a good choice.

I've given you two excellent examples of where it was a good choice. As a domainer you're getting hung up on a domain needing to be flawless when clearly they don't.

What happens when the site is #2 in google down the track.....or #5, is relying on search engines a good way for a to get repeat business?

Probably having an outstanding product and good follow up marketing is the way to get repeat business.

Where is the value of the domain if it is just about getting ranked on a search engine?

The value of getting high rankings is that it gains more visitors. The more visitors the higher it's value. Pretty self explanatory.

If .whatever for reg fee is a good as .com.au why would people spend any money on .com.au's?

It's like diamonds, most people couldn't see a flaw or correctly appraise a white D if it hit them in the head but they still pay through the nose.

Like you pointed out, some people will turn their noses up at a .com in the serps because it's not a .com.au.

There isn't 70 people going to the no.1 ranked site a month, there is 70 searches on google for the term.

No there's 390 a month global and 320 local.

In my experience, 20-25% of exact monthly searches is around what you could expect for being at number 1 for keywords like that.

If you just had one beach house though the conversion rate is going to be terrible (because most people will have a different budget to where your house is priced at - higher or lower), so it wouldn't be likely to be worth $1.25 to that person.

If you got 1 lead out of 70 visitors and they booked for a week ($4k) would that be a success given they haven't had to pay 10% commission or worse to an agent?

You'd have to be pretty optimistic to get a cheap holiday house at Byron

I think you are overstating the profitability of things. The average beach houses loses money for owners, it is not rented most of the time then there is all the costs of a mortgage, maintaining, updating, council rates, utilities etc. The rent really just helps with the upkeep on it. Different situation for the agents who can build a real business around holiday homes.

I think you don't understand the market or Byron Bay. It's not your typical east coast holiday spot, it's a full on freak show with it's own daily traffic jams.

 

[snoopy]

I've given you two excellent examples of where it was a good choice. As a domainer you're getting hung up on a domain needing to be flawless when clearly they don't.

You've given examples of successful sites. You haven't provided any link with the domain. I can give examples of successful sites with obviously bad domains.

It is a bit like me arguing driving a mercedes makes you rich, "Look at all those successful people who own mercedes".

Probably having an outstanding product and good follow up marketing is the way to get repeat business.

Having a domain that isn't logical or easy to remember is not a good thing. Obvious you disagree as you think people will use Google, personally wouldn't give that 5 minutes of thought and neither do most businesses who use .com.au's without hyphens.

No there's 390 a month global and 320 local.

In my experience, 20-25% of exact monthly searches is around what you could expect for being at number 1 for keywords like that.

You were arguing the domain is worthwhile for the international component, that is 70 searches. 70*.25 = 17 visitors a month, and don't see how that is worth spending $1000 on.

Recap:

I think it's ok. Firstly because other .com's are at the top of the serps and because almost a quarter of visitors are from overseas.

If you got 1 lead out of 70 visitors and they booked for a week ($4k) would that be a success given they haven't had to pay 10% commission or worse to an agent?

This isn't realistic maths. Firstly I can't imagine having 1 house listed in going to give result in a conversion rate over 1%. If one out of 70 converted then the traffic would be worth far more than $1.35 to the estate agents with large numbers of listings who can convert it efficiently.

Secondly agents fees are typically 20-30% on holiday homes, sometimes 40% in some areas.

Then you have,

-a mortgage/interest
-land tax
-advertising
-cleaning costs after each person
-gardening
-council rates
-utilities
-maintenance, painting, purchasing furniture

You'd have to be pretty optimistic to get a cheap holiday house at Byron

$4000 a week may sound like a lot, but when the house costs couple of million plus a boat load of money each year to maintain it isn't going to be much of a dent unless it is really rented a lot, which most places aren't.

I think you don't understand the market or Byron Bay. It's not your typical east coast holiday spot, it's a full on freak show with it's own daily traffic jams.

Doesn't mean owning a holiday house is going to be suddenly be a great money spinner.

 

[Bacon Farmer]

It is a bit like me arguing driving a mercedes makes you rich, "Look at all those successful people who own mercedes".

No it's like me saying those people who worked hard with the resources they had and are now reaping the benefits can afford a mercedes.

Having a domain that isn't logical or easy to remember is not a good thing.

I disagree, byronbayholidayhouses.com is logical and easy to remember.

You were arguing the domain is worthwhile for the international component, that is 70 searches.

Er no I wasn't.

This isn't realistic maths. Firstly I can't imagine having 1 house listed in going to give result in a conversion rate over 1%. If one out of 70 converted then the traffic would be worth far more than $1.35 to the estate agents with large numbers of listings who can convert it efficiently.

You're assuming the market is efficient.

Secondly agents fees are typically 20-30% on holiday homes, sometimes 40% in some areas.

I said 10% or worse [Stayz charges 8% plus $14.95 per night].

Given you are saying it's up to 40% this means the domain/site as a lead generator would be even more valuable.

$4000 a week may sound like a lot, but when the house costs couple of million plus a boat load of money each year to maintain it isn't going to be much of a dent unless it is really rented a lot, which most places aren't.

The $4k pw is relevant to my argument though where the cost of leads via a website based on this keyword domain might only be $1k.

I'm not arguing whether holiday houses are a good business, I'm arguing a lead gen website is value for money. Like I said Byron isn't your everyday sleepy holiday town so you need to factor that in.

 

[snoopy]

If you got 1 lead out of 70 visitors and they booked for a week ($4k) would that be a success given they haven't had to pay 10% commission or worse to an agent?

Misread this before. If you do it yourself it is still a cost, your time. Most people who owned holiday houses in Byron Bay aren't likely to live very close, so driving back and forth with keys probably isn't practical.