Bargains!

[neddy]

Netfleet had another good day today securing most of the domains on offer.

The absolute bargain to me was swimmingpools.net.au - $339 was an excellent price imho. (I only wish I bidded more )

Another goodie imho was discountwine.com.au - good pick up by a DNT member at $196.

 

[johno69]

(I only wish I had bid more )

Fixed.

 

[nina]

Yes I saw those - but again - was AFK ...Is there anywhere we can see 'dropping' domains to see what's coming up- I know the .com market has got squillions you can see, but in AU there does not seem to be any such animal.

Although having said that - one of my colleagues said he sees dropping domains from TPP Internet and I have tried to register there as a reseller, but no one ever gets back to me.

Nina

 

[johno69]

...Is there anywhere we can see 'dropping' domains to see what's coming up-

Both Drop & NF offer an email list of the following days drops.

Usually around 2pm they hit the inbox for the next days auction.

Hope this helps some.

 

[nina]

Hi Johno
I know of these sites and I'm on the netfleet list, but what I meant was names that are coming up in the future - eg.. expiring in X amount of days.

I have a domain monitor account but that's only for watching domains specifically, particularly my own and client domains who may forget to reregister them. There are a fair few .com sites around, but not .com.au ones. Only the one for that day.

Does that make sense?

Nina

 

[Ash]

Hi Nina, I think that's just the way the .com.au market works - you only know the domains that are dropping the day before they do (although i think i've seen auda's official droplist sometimes showing ones from the day after).

Hi Johno
I know of these sites and I'm on the netfleet list, but what I meant was names that are coming up in the future - eg.. expiring in X amount of days.

I have a domain monitor account but that's only for watching domains specifically, particularly my own and client domains who may forget to reregister them. There are a fair few .com sites around, but not .com.au ones. Only the one for that day.

Does that make sense?

Nina

 

[johno69]

Does that make sense?

Nina

Yep. Would be nice if this was a service offered.

 

[nina]

Thanks for clarifying this guys!
Nina

 

[Honan]

The reason is that expiry dates for au are not displayed in the whois
They used to be and that led to spammers sending fake renewal notices to the holders
AUDA acted to protect Australians by removing the whois
This has unintended consequences
a.The registrars can make mistakes in their data bases and you might lose a name because the registrar had the wrong expiry date and you cannot check that date in the whois. Many people are totally reliant on their registrar to maintain an accurate expiry date. It appears to me that no registrar checks their data bases of expiry dates with the real expiry date at the registry
b. Netfleet and drop are able to profit from people's mistakes in not renewing a name.
If the expiry date was visible, not many valuable names would drop because vigilant domainers would track down the owner and alert the holder by offering to buy.
I do not believe hardware.com.au wouold have been dropped by Bunnings allowing Woolies to buy it if expiry dates were visible.
However the job of Auda appears to be to protect Australians from spammers and fraud
So no expiry dates in whois , therefore no early lists
My questions are:
Does not the whois show the status?
Doesn't the status indicate the name might drop
Is there a zone file for .au that shows the status?

 

[DavidL]

As Ash said the official list might give you a bit more advance warning:

http://www.auda.org.au/domains/drop-list

But I don't think it can ever be more than 48 hours except for pending deletes

 

[AnthonyP]

a.The registrars can make mistakes in their data bases and you might lose a name because the registrar had the wrong expiry date and you cannot check that date in the whois. Many people are totally reliant on their registrar to maintain an accurate expiry date. It appears to me that no registrar checks their data bases of expiry dates with the real expiry date at the registry

This is quite simply not true, Registrars are highly motivated to have correct expiry dates. They make money out of having correct expiry dates after all.

I am aware that ALL software has bugs and occasionally the expiry date will be incorrect at a registrar but the scale of this is miniscule compared to the volume of incorrect contact details for registrants. If a registrant could prove that a registrar had the incorrect renewal date for a domain AND did not attempt to contact the registrant in the 90 days before the real expiry date, then that registrant should contact auDA as the registrar would be in breach of their agreement with auDA and will get into hot water! Note here that the breach is in them not contacting the owner, not just having the incorrect data in their database.

 

[AnthonyP]

As Ash said the official list might give you a bit more advance warning:

http://www.auda.org.au/domains/drop-list

But I don't think it can ever be more than 48 hours except for pending deletes

Domains are added to this list every 5 minutes, all day every day.
Expired domains must be on the list for at least 24 hours.
All domains are purged daily at 3AM (UTC), 1PM for us at +10.
So any domains arriving on the list 5 minutes after 3AM will be on the list for almost 48 hours... whereas domains arriving on the list 5 minutes before 3AM will be on the list for just 24 hours.

pendingDelete domains appear in a separate section, are listed for 3 or 14 days and are not guaranteed to be purged.

 

[Honan]

This is quite simply not true, Registrars are highly motivated to have correct expiry dates. They make money out of having correct expiry dates after all.

I am aware that ALL software has bugs and occasionally the expiry date will be incorrect at a registrar but the scale of this is miniscule compared to the volume of incorrect contact details for registrants. If a registrant could prove that a registrar had the incorrect renewal date for a domain AND did not attempt to contact the registrant in the 90 days before the real expiry date, then that registrant should contact auDA as the registrar would be in breach of their agreement with auDA and will get into hot water! Note here that the breach is in them not contacting the owner, not just having the incorrect data in their database.

Sorry Anthony
I have had it happen to me several times
Do you agree that the registrars do not synchonize the expiry dates with the registry?
I think you have missed my point
The point is that everyone has to rely on their registrar to maintain a correct renewal date because Auda sees its role as protecting Ausytralians against spam and fraud
I do not agree
I think we should all be able to see the expiry date on all names
If you have ever sold names you will know that ALL registrars except one don't bother to remove the sold names from the sellers account and often send renewal notices for names that have been sold

 

[AnthonyP]

Sorry Anthony
I have had it happen to me several times
Do you agree that the registrars do not synchonize the expiry dates with the registry?

Joe, All the registrars I have built software for have auditing processes in place to check expiry date discrepancies at least once every 90 days. My experience is skewed to be honest since I worked for expiry date savvy registrars and because I was passionate about putting this process in place.

If there are registrars who are not maintaining their expiry dates correctly then this is a very serious failing on their part. Registrars are obligated by auDA to have a record that proves when and how they attempted to contact you to advise you that a domain is about to expire. If the Registrar is unable to provide this proof then they are in breach of their Registrar Agreement and could/should get a mention on the auDA website especially if this occurs on multiple occasions. I suggest that you contact auDA with your specific concerns about not being contacted in connection with expiry dates and if you are correct then I am sure they will take action because this is an absolutely critical piece of information and is the responsibility of the registrar to get correct.

 

[Honan]

Joe, All the registrars I have built software for have auditing processes in place to check expiry date discrepancies at least once every 90 days. My experience is skewed to be honest since I worked for expiry date savvy registrars and because I was passionate about putting this process in place.

If there are registrars who are not maintaining their expiry dates correctly then this is a very serious failing on their part. Registrars are obligated by auDA to have a record that proves when and how they attempted to contact you to advise you that a domain is about to expire. If the Registrar is unable to provide this proof then they are in breach of their Registrar Agreement and could/should get a mention on the auDA website especially if this occurs on multiple occasions. I suggest that you contact auDA with your specific concerns about not being contacted in connection with expiry dates and if you are correct then I am sure they will take action because this is an absolutely critical piece of information and is the responsibility of the registrar to get correct.

Thank you Anthony
Is it possible to get a zone file for au?

 

[AnthonyP]

Thank you Anthony
Is it possible to get a zone file for au?

There is no definitive zone file available for .au

 

[Honan]

Domains are added to this list every 5 minutes, all day every day.
Expired domains must be on the list for at least 24 hours.
All domains are purged daily at 3AM (UTC), 1PM for us at +10.
So any domains arriving on the list 5 minutes after 3AM will be on the list for almost 48 hours... whereas domains arriving on the list 5 minutes before 3AM will be on the list for just 24 hours.

pendingDelete domains appear in a separate section, are listed for 3 or 14 days and are not guaranteed to be purged.

Interesting

Where is this section for pendingDelete names that are listed for 3 or 14 days and are not guaranteed to be purged?

 

[AnthonyP]

Interesting

Where is this section for pendingDelete names that are listed for 3 or 14 days and are not guaranteed to be purged?

There is a section titled "Deleted Domain Names"
http://www.auda.org.au/domains/drop-list/

or
There is a section titled "Deleted Domain Names"
http://www.ausregistry.com.au/droplist.php

"Domain Names appearing on this list may be restored by the deleting party at any time up until they are purged and thus NOT become available for registration."

 

[DavidL]

Sorry Anthony
I have had it happen to me several times

Never happened to me thankfully.

If you have ever sold names you will know that ALL registrars except one don't bother to remove the sold names from the sellers account and often send renewal notices for names that have been sold

Yeah this bugs me too. It has gotten me into trouble too as I once sold a name, completed the paperwork at the buyer's chosen registrar for the transfer, got the funds then forgot about it.

then when I got renewal notices, I just ignored them because I knew I'd sold it and that the registrar would just continue nto send the notices anyway.

Needless to say the transfer hadn't been completed and the name expired!

Always harder when the buyer insists on using a weird registrar who don't have a clue how a registrant transfer works and inisist on driver's licences, certificates of incorporation or signed declarations on letterheads etc!!

 

[AnthonyP]

Sorry Anthony
I have had it happen to me several times
Do you agree that the registrars do not synchonize the expiry dates with the registry?
I think you have missed my point
The point is that everyone has to rely on their registrar to maintain a correct renewal date because Auda sees its role as protecting Ausytralians against spam and fraud
I do not agree
I think we should all be able to see the expiry date on all names
If you have ever sold names you will know that ALL registrars except one don't bother to remove the sold names from the sellers account and often send renewal notices for names that have been sold

Joe, I missed your edit when I replied initially.
I agree with you that expiry dates should be public, and that it is in the Registrants best interests to be able to check a domains expiry date. The idea behind a "thick" registry is that the registry holds the definitive record of the domain details and provides the whois details as a public record of these details. So it is counter-intuitive to hide this piece of information. Ironically you can even recover your EPP Key from auDA site directly, yet they will not let the registrant see their own expiry date.

If persons wish to engage in fraud relating to expiry dates, then they will find a way regardless of hiding this expiry date, for example many registrars create a unique contact for every single domain registration, this contacts create date is available to non-sponsoring registrars, so a motivated party can predict expiry dates that way if they wanted to. Fraud should be dealt with by the office of fair trading or the high tech crimes unit of the AFP, not by auDA.

I do hope that a few registrants take my points on board about reporting instances of incorrect data being held by registrars and lobby auDA to put pressure on registrars to cleanup their systems with regards to failed renewals, domain sales and transfer outs, after all this is what your registration fee is supposed to pay for.